Kazzong

Well, deathtouch works because it doesn't require combat, whereas first strike only takes effect during combat. First strike creatures deal combat damage before creatures without first strike (or double strike, which deals first strike AND regular combat damage.).

And as for the indestructible being "pointless"... Yes it is obvious that tokens can be killed en masse, but that isn't the point. The point is that you can create an infinite amount of tokens. You can only nuke them all so many times anyways, particularly in standard.


And since there is blue in this deck, counter spells could be put in the side board and subbed in if anti token cards are used. Which in most standard matches those are too specific to run mean board in the first game anyways.

also, rectifying a previous statement, as I may have misunderstood your use of deathtouch AGAINST first strike as deathtouch WITH first strike. my apologies. in which case that is correct, first strike does beat deathtouch, as the deathtouch creature doesn't actually get to deal any damage because it is dead before it can do so.

actually damage does not wear off at the end of combat, it wears off at the end of turn, which is why I can block a 4/4 with a 1/1 ,and then lightning bolt the 4/4 and kill it after combat has happened but before the end of the turn.
so no matter how the damage was taken, whether it be combat, or non-combat damage it doesn't matter.

As for Nest dying yes it would die. in fact it would die from only a single fight, because the card here that allows for Fight to occur also give +1/+1. However, BMGApache has Ephemeral Shields, which makes target creature indestructible anyways, thus negating the worry about having Hornet's nest die at all.

now if the Fight ability gave -/- to the creature, THAT isn't damage, and so would get around the Nest's ability, but nothing here is doing that.

also... why are you arguing with me on the rules of Fight when clearly the ability states that each creature DEALS DAMAGE to the other creature. as shown here on Blood Feud.

http://www.mtgvault.com/card/blood-feud/DKA/

in all honesty your lack of rules knowledge is making me sad. I am not trying to argue with you, but rather help you understand the game better. I hope that you can realize that.


If Fight isn't damage, then why do the creatures die from it? How would you classify it?

look up the rules for deathtouch.
Giant Scorpion, which has deathtouch, states that the rules for deathtouch are: Any amount of damage this deals to a creature is enough to destroy it.
http://www.mtgvault.com/card/giant-scorpion/M13/ here is the card, just so you can double check.

also, Fight states that a creature DEALS DAMAGE to target creature equal to its power, which is still dealing damage from the creature.
If an instant or sorcery states that it deals damage equal to target creature's power that is different, as it isn't the creature dealing the damage. however, with Fight, that simply isn't the case. the creatures themselves deal the damage, thus deathtouch still applies. first strike does not however, since it isn't combat.

not really, as most people view Lilliana as a pretty weak planeswalker, and not much of a threat. until it is too late that is. :)

very interesting. perhaps Lilliana of the Dark Realms would go well in here?

very interesting deck here. :) I like the use of battlefield thaumaturge. :)

this looks to be a great example of black/blue control. :)

um... not entirely sure how either of those combat illness in the ranks, since they do something similar.
however, I guess that illness in the ranks isn't standard either. :) still... would need to find an answer to those cards in standard.

could sideboard intangible virtue to combat that. although it isn't standard anymore so... :(

Lol.. I didn't notice that on Whippoorwill. too funny. :) and ok, creatures with protection from black would be good. but I need them to be either black or green, and preferably 1 mana. :( I will look for some.

ok, I shall take a look at those. thanks. :)

only thing that I don't care for about memorial is that it is way too much to put out consistently I think. but other than that, those are all pretty good suggestions. sideboard for sure. just in case I want to switch it up a bit. :)

You are only partially correct. Fight damage isn't the same as combat damage. However, nowhere does hornets nest say that it must take combat damage to trigger it's ability, just damage.

Also incidentally neither does death touch say that. However, first strike damage is still combat damage anyways. So it still would work.

Hey Jessie, I posted a new deck. And around really appreciate your feedback on it.

Very cool. I designed a deck that did something very similar, but with Pestilence and Phytohydra. This definitely gets a+1 from me. :)

He has had a bit of help learning how to build decks. :)

I like this deck. the creatures are really misleading at first glance. and do not give the impression of burn at all. which can certainly catch unaware opponents off guard, and give you an advantage. :)

strength of the tajuru makes everything big. :)

ooh, that is a good call. :) grapeshot would be very good here.

However, this deck does get some major style points for being unique. :). LIKE!!!!!!

it could, but it is also only a single color as well. so if you only get blue, you can still cast it. so easier and not at once I guess.