JensDagon

This deck has been going over in my head for a while, and I finally sat down last week and doodled up a version for myself. I've not really built something that felt new to me since I first worked on StoneBlade(for the purposes of better understanding it; knowledge is half the battle, the other half is violence.) And it feels absolutely delightful to do /anything/ remotely fresh in Magic!
In short, thanks for inspiring me beyond my stagnation.

Bitter Ordeal, Bitterblossom, Thoughtpicker Witch, and Earwig Squadron are all great picks for Black in EDH. I also find Dimir Charm quite delightful in the format. Other than those though, or perhaps Sadistic Sacrament, I wouldn't really be inclined to test the idea of Extraction in EDH.
Thoughtpicker can really be just brutal though, it's amazing what one can do with her, and simple recursion.

Yawgwin actually doesn't fit this deck at all in my opinion, just as it doesn't in Hermit Druid, or Dredge. It's one of those things that seem great on first glance, and certainly seem like they should be, but it turns out to be horrible in practice.

>_> This explains why your posts seemed so familiar in my lurkings.

That's the idea.
https://i.imgur.com/0OAS6Hj.gif

Well I was actually talking about in Legacy. I ran Sundials in Goblins because of that stupid deck >_<

Yeah, that seems like it'd be pretty awesome. I can understand going for the Titans as the primary win condition though, Hive isn't quite stable enough here to rely on.

Yeah, that attitude is why I was never able to really get into it. The thing I enjoy most in MtG is obsessively tinkering with something until I get the reason to tinker with it again, so with between that and the other end of the same spectrum I can't manage to stay. Overall the community is pretty decent, the size of it just means the saturation of the douches feels to be greater.

I think the problem with the Vault's lack of competitive spirit right now is in the lack of progression in Legacy right now. We have so many great things going on, but nothing really to make anybody feel the need to revise. :/ So we all revert to entertaining ourselves with silliness, that self-mill deck of mine being a readily available example.
Really, Lands getting an actual win condition, and Young Tempo feel like the biggest influences to last recently.

I've actually been sitting here for a week trying to figure out what to take out for at least second Bridge. I've been heavily considering Smother no. 3, but no matter what I think of I just don't feel comfortable. :| I have considered going the usual route of 8-rack, but I want to explore the recursive option more really. There are people playing 8-rack far better than I do, but there's very few who are trying creatures for it.

Would you believe I used to hate him? It wasn't until I started playing Pox that he became one of my favorite creatures. The interactions he has within the deck are why I always feel sketchy about going to the 8-rack style.

I can't agree with more Bridges enough, though Racks on Racks just feels meh to me. I can play heavy hand disruption well enough, but it gets a bit draining to win exclusively through it to me. I have doodled up a list to use if it comes to the point that I won't be able to manage with this, but I would start to hate consecutive games.

Yup, I played that deck momentarily during the reign of Misstep before settling on Jericho for that period. It did win using that manner generally, though I preferred the Karmic Guide win setup then(Karmic Guide+Kiki-Jiki+Deceiver Exarch). They were both really quite equal in regards of resiliency in my opinion, so I used that one for a slightly more compact win condition.

Thanks! It's something I threw together out of nostalgia, and to see if I could make it work really. I can't for the life of me remember who told me about the Angel combo, but it became my favorite for self-mill decks; winning on the spot, and having Grand Abolisher on the field is just absurdly good.
That is indeed what Phantasmagorian is there for, it's a habit I picked up from the Hermit Druid deck. I found it allowed me to get by with reduced redundancy in some slots, and while less effective for that in this deck, it's still welcomed.

Mystic Remora I bring out for certain Storm decks if I feel the pilot is sufficiently competent to warrant it, but every now and then I'll bring it in against Aggro if I think the risk is worth it.

That's true, and the Modern community is /much/ nicer than the Legacy one. Especially on the topic of differing opinions... Oddly enough I think Joe was the one I argued with the most, though that mostly happened here on the Vault. He caused me more grief than any other aggro player when he was at the forefront of Affinity development.

You know I've been on Salvation, and it's a nice resource, as was that board that they're talking shop for StifleNought on, but I can't get into them for whatever reason. The primary reason I even check them anymore is to reacquaint myself with the meta after my off periods.

A slow brutal control like that is amongst my favorite things, I just find mana denial to be the most effective manner of breaking down my opponents plan. Hand disruption is generally too unwieldy for multiplayer in my opinion, the casting constraints on the spells that are effective when dealing with multiple opponents usually entail significant costs. Nihil Stone is a really solid option for it, but Guiltfeeder is one of those crazy(yet awesome) things that could only really happen in multiplayer. I haven't seen it yet, but I already love it lol.

And the reason for that is that it's not effective for multiplayer. It's optimal point as at B+3 as most see it, and the use of four mana for a spell only targeting one person is unjustifiable when there are so many other bombs that become more efficient for multiplayer.

Nihil Stone is based on the use of an entirely different version of discard really, it would be more readily comparable to the Rack, or as an opposite version of Black Vise. The use of Nihil Stone is too different for me to really be willing to compare it to Liliana's Caress.

Blackfire is awesome, so if he likes it I'm sure to enjoy it too usually.

And as for your final point; I really hope somebody wouldn't say Thoughtseize, it's one of the most effective cards, but the efficiency is quite nominal. Though maybe I've just spent too much time playing Pox. I'm quite glad we're getting to have this dialog, it's been a while since the Vault has had such a player take the stage.

@Jessie; Mind Slash is viable, but you'd have to have the early ramp to do that. Call me biased, which I entirely am, but I think a form of mana denial Pox would suit that idea quite nicely. A more traditional approach to WinterVoid Pox as Quasimofo uses would do quite nicely I think.
Zombardment, while a quick thought, is too focused on it's primary agenda for this to work, though Carnival is an interesting option for support. I think I'd rather see one to three copies of Waste Not finding a home in some variations of Grixis Tempo.

Also, I quite enjoyed reading your responses on the subject of Mind Twist. Though the things that the research neglects is the lack of people playing the decks that /should/ have Mind Twist, and the drastic toll it takes on most players mental state. Especially given the gamestate of Vintage, where that much mana means the only reason one does this is to assure victory on /their timetable/.
(As a small addendum to this address, I will be checking out that deck. Multiplayer MBC is a love of mine, and while hand disruption isn't my particular style, it is quite enjoyable when built well.)


@Sure; I for some reason can't help but imagine any member of your group I've talked to but Wumpus pulling that move.

Mind Twist is brutal, if I had the option to, I would play it in Legacy all the time. By the notion of it being slow, then certainly Doom Blade is slow, and Sinkhole irrelevant.
I want you to think about the nature of the decks that would play Mind Twist, and then reflect on if it's a slow card or not. Certainly at some points it becomes essentially a dead card, same as Thoughtseize, but at others it is the most efficient form of hand disruption behind only Hymn to Tourach and a well used Cabal Therapy.

... Oh yes, very yes!

I love Waste Not, and this looks like it's pretty fun man. I did not know about the existence of Mind Shatter, I think I'm going to have to start using that in Modern now.

Yeah, I can totally understand that. I said Funeral Charm because I know you usually like a super stable landbase, and while Funeral Charm is the utility knife from hell I thought it would be the least disruptive to the overall design.

I'm going to make something with Waste Not, the card Notch designed, and Words of Waste. I just think that'd be absurdly fun, even if I already know it's not the best idea.
I quite like the rest of the deck, though I am surprised at the lack of Black Cat to match your Drainpipe Vermin. Though I suppose the rest of the deck more than makes up for it.

Y'know I don't know why I never thought of playing Hive combo in Modern, especially given the fact that I at one point had four copies of Sundial because of it... I quite enjoy the setup you've used, as is your habit it's quite well thought out, and even relatively it's concise.

One regret I have from college taking up my time is that I scarcely remember to check my favorite fellow vaulters decks, but as it nears the end of summer semester I'll hopefully be able to obsess once more.

I would definitely toss Funeral Charm, or a Swamp for Waste Not.

The test games for this build have had turns that are absolutely absurd because of Waste Not, and while not all of the best have involved it, most of them have. I went with Wrench Mind over Hymn because this is my main Modern deck, just tweaked to have Waste Not when it becomes legal.

And I will have to see if I can help you think of something, I remember it being a bit tight as it was... But Waste Not would be so perfect for it that I can't help but think it /needs/ to be there.