Kazzong

I suppose they may have changed the rules to make them more arena friendly. But in the decade or so I have been playing, that particular rule had always been that way, at least as far as I can remember. But certainly if you have a loop that can be done with an optional step and can stop at any time, that can be shortcut with no issues. In paper at least. On arena... Sadly no shortcuts exist and you are required to go through every step of every loop in your combo to get the desired end state.

I was playing on arena couple weeks ago, and I was using an infinite mill combo deck against a deck (and I see this way too often and it irritates me to no end) that had almost 300 cards in it. Keeping in mind battle of wits isn't on arena...
I pulled off my combo, which mills 4 cards per loop, and instead of scooping because they had no way of stopping me, they just let the time run out and I lost due to time because I couldn't mill their entire deck before my four 30 second extensions ran out. Super frustrating.

I am aware the 0 costs will die as a result of being a 0/0. in fact that was the whole point of the deck at first: to have my tokens simply die and trigger plunderer infinitely. the issue is that I cannot stop the loop created by the tokens to cast Bitter Ordeal because it is a sorcery if they are 0/0, because the stack will never be empty of plunderer triggers. If plunderer was a "may" ability, then I could choose not to create another treasure, but I cannot.

I think the rules have changed since you last checked. 713 discusses substitute cards.
rules for ending the game are now found in 104, and mandatory loops resulting in a draw specifically in 104.4B

there is a rule for shortcuts, where not every step in the loop is mandatory, and each player can agree that the loop happens X times, but the rules do not allow this for loops with only mandatory steps. in this case the loop has all mandatory steps if my artifacts are all 0/0, so even though I could attempt to shortcut it, I have no way of stopping the loop at the agreed point. a draw would ensue.

if plunderer said may create a token, I could shortcut and be totally fine because I could stop it from creating new tokens when the trigger occurs. initially I thought it did. I was incorrect. :(

so depending on what my board state is, I need:

an artist or disciple
a plunderer
march
creature to start loop

OR
anthem creature
plunderer
march
creature to start loop
elixir
bitter ordeal in hand OR artist OR disciple in play

I win in both those situations.

but if I have
plunderer
march
creature to start loop

that results in a mandatory loop and a draw.

essentially, the game would end in an immediate draw when march hits the battlefield with just a plunderer and a 0 cost artifact. have to have a way prevent the loop from being mandatory, or already have the life drain creatures out.

kind of... this might seem like a convoluted answer, but I will do my best for it to make sense.

the issue there is that if I don't have disciple of the vault or blood artist out when I play march of the machines to animate my artifacts it will cause an immediate draw, as well as not being able to sacrifice the treasures for mana. it was the whole point of having Mikaeus and Master of Etherium to prevent my treasure tokens from dying immediately upon animation.

so I could have another 0 mana artifact like bauble, but it still limits me to making sure I have one of my anthem effects out before I play March or I draw the game. as is I can ensure that I have core pieces and have any of the three win conditions. But I cannot just have bauble or clues to start generating treasure from pitiless plunderer because the treasures would also just die.

this way, having Death cultist or a similar creature, I have a combo piece that I can play with march of the machines out, without it dying and causing a draw, without having one of my anthem effect creatures out.

that being said, I am all for ideas on how to make this better. :) if you can find something that I missed, I would happily make changes.

I like this. I have a similar series of decks designed to help new people learn to play, and learn the different colors and what their core abilities are. I have one deck for each of the five colors.

oh, and Massacre girl is a beast of a card. can easily come down and wipe the board. and this is an interesting usage of her.

thanks. yeah, the gravestorm ability counts permanents dying, which means they have to be on the battlefield. instants and sorceries need not apply.

yes, and by definition, your commander must be legendary, and I am not aware of any legendary common cards.

This isn't a pauper deck... Do you mean budget deck, as in cheaper cards? Pauper specifically means your deck only has common rarity cards in it.

That being said, I like the deck. Talrand is a sweet commander.

I see a jumbled mess, albeit an interesting one. Although I appreciate you attempting to make my casual deck idea into a tourney legal one.

I don't think you have enough consistency in your mana. You have exactly two mana sources, and if you don't have them both in your hand you have nothing. Since money is no object, you could have several pertinent moxen and still be vintage legal. Also, i don't think noxious revival does anything for you as it puts the card on top of your library rather than in your hand. And mishra's bauble doesn't draw you a card until the next turn so it doesn't really help you either.

I do like street wraith here as a free cantrip.

I like the include of the Chancellors and soul spike. That is a pretty sweet combo.

Thanks. Any suggestions?

seems pretty good to me. looks like a pretty fun deck to play.

so its boggles?

yes, the idea is to pay a bunch of life with [[Blood Celebrant]] and gain it back with [[children of korlis]], causing massive drain with [[Vito, Thorn of the dusk Rose]]. [[Tainted Sigil]] is a good backup plan. I knew there was another card I had forgotten about that did that. 3 mana is infinitely more than 1, but as an artifact it is less susceptible to removal.

[[sign in blood]] is reasonable, but I have to have all my life loss come in a single turn for children or sigil to work. so, if I can use it mid to late game and draw (and still be able to play) children of korlis, that's not bad.

hmm... could also throw in [[sanguine bond]] as copies 5-8 of vito. that I like.

my ideal is to have 3 lands, a korlis, a celebrant, a vito, and a life gain/drain card.

actually, I need it to be a cleric to work with the combo.

oh dang... I missed that. thank you.

hmm... now I need to find another card that doubles life gain... :(

not a bad couple of suggestions.

I see the benefit of the extra draw, but even that could be achieved with a cheaper card. I think Staff of domination would be far better suited.

curious... I would say that [[Myr galvanizer]] would fit very well here. you could go infinite with both mana AND make [[Lodestone Myr]] infinitely big.

hmm.... not sure I like survival cache. it is always 4 life, but not always draw a card, as it depends on if I have more life.
If I play it turn 3, it probably gets me an extra card, but if I draw it late it most likely does not.

so its 4 life and MAYBE 1 or 2 cards for 2W I can only do on my turn vs 3 life and a guaranteed card for 1W I can do on my opponent's turn. I think I like the guaranteed card better, even if it the ceiling for revitalize is lower than survival cache, the floor is higher. 1 life isn't enough to make up for the uncertainty of the card draw, particularly if I am losing late game.

I mean.. this deck technically isn't a life gain deck, but a combo deck that uses life gain, I don't expect it to block much, so your life total may not be as high as it would appear.

not bad ideas.

could swap Cathedral sanctifier for Soul Warden, but Bloodthirsty Aerialist and Resplendent Angel are a no go because they are not clerics, thus they cannot be tapped to use Prophet. perhaps I am sacrificing overall power for the gimmick, but I am ok with that.