Kazzong

very flavorful. I like it. a little group mill, a little artifact reanimation. lots of targets for saga. I am curious though... inkwell leviathan is fairly expensive. you think this deck can cast it? you have no ramp and no fetch lands. even with Emry getting it in the graveyard, you still have to have the mana for it. I guess you could be relying on Dakkon?

hmm. I suppose I hadn't thought about it that way.

I can agree that many people seem to cling to the ideal fantasy of what they want life to be like. in some ways that becomes a motivation, a conduit for them to make it so: new inventions, discoveries, or simply personal self improvement. I think without that push past what we perceive is our physical limitation we might still be hunter/gatherers instead of talking to people anonymously across the globe in an instant through electricity.

but in others it tends to blind them to reality too much, and they can't differentiate between what is real and what is not. they become wrapped up in the idea of reality they created, they miss opportunities and paths they could take that might improve their situation. I knew a man once who, in all seriousness, said there was no distinction between hiking on a forested mountain in a video game and doing so in real life. if he wanted a breeze, a light fan would work, and if he wanted the scent of pine, a car air freshener was just as good. and he wasn't missing out on anything. I am all for people thinking and believing what they want to, but sometimes... it just makes me sad to know there are people who willingly choose to blur those lines.

that being said, don't know if you watch anime or not, but there is one that explores the concept that fiction, when accepted by enough people, becomes its own reality, and sometimes these realities can bleed into each other. Re:Creators. its got a deeper story than that, but its a good watch. makes you think a bit, which I like.

Certainly, an interesting take on things. there is an ebb and flow to everything, and there are even studies about such interactions in life. I would say it is a fascinating topic.

like... predicting how communities interact. despite each individual person being hard to predict, PEOPLE, societies, countries etc... are easy to predict, given accurate data to work with. statistical analysis. the psychological nature of mtg I think makes an interesting example of that in action. a microcosm, if you will.

I agree that the draw of "going infinite" can certainly be a trap as a deck builder. There is certainly the "infinite power!!! feeling that you get, particularly as a new player or new deck builder. big and flashy is cool, and I think that kind of hides the impracticality. so when you try it in a real game, it often under performs.

I often feel that infinite combos are too hard to assemble, or the interaction takes too long to practically use. even if the end result is strong enough to be game breaking. I also find that the individual pieces don't really synergize with other cards, so they may do nothing until you have the full combo out. so it might be a better option to use something that has less overall power, but more synergy with more of the other cards in the deck.

for example:
I built a fun, but not competitive, Naya token deck for Historic recently on MTG Arena. it uses [[Gala Greeters]], [[Xorn]], and [[Stimulus package]] as an engine to pump out several 1/1s per turn, and pump out treasures.
it ramps and builds board presence surprisingly fast.
It can't go infinite, but each card works with more than just the other cards in the combo and none of them are useless on their own, like... [[prosperous innkeeper]] gains me life with [[stimulus package]], and[[ xorn]] works well with [[stimulus package]] by adding an extra treasure when it ETBs, or [[stimulus package]] with [[witty roastmaster]] by pinging every time I make a 1/1 token.

with a board state of two [[gala greeters]], one [[xorn]] and one [[stimulus package]] I can pump out three 1/1 tokens, net 2 treasures, and gain 4 life on each turn, and I can do it at instant speed so not just my turn. add in [[prosperous innkeeper]] and that jumps to 7 life per turn, add in [[witty roastmaster]] and I ping for 3 damage as well. finish it by throwing out [[Jetmir, nexus of revels]] to give them all +3/+0 vigilance, trample and double strike. so each piece works really well with all the others, instead of relying on any one of them to be usable. and more copies of any of these cards just adds more value to each loop.

or of course, my Naya Defender Deck. again, no infinite but it pumps out ramp and burn burn like crazy. super proud of that deck. one of the few I created here that I actually own.

my guess, it isn't inherently part of spam behavior, but just a difference in building styles, or new players not knowing niche cards that go infinite, like [[freed from the real]], etc.

[[Helix pinnacle]] is a sweet idea here as a sideboard card. I wouldn't worry too much about drawing it, as Genesis Wave is a monstrosity of a card that can dump half the deck on to the battlefield in a single turn.

although I like the flavor win of [[door to nothingness]], I think it overlaps a little too much with my main win conditions already. not in effect, but that it targets a player. so if they have something to prevent me from targeting them, both methods are ineffective.

Wasn't going for infinite. My Naya deck, that this was based on, didn't go infinite either. I ran a single test (time constraints) by proxying it on moxfield.com. On turn 5 I cast Wave for ten, then a second wave for twenty. Then on turn 6 I cast villainous wealth for 60. So there is no shortage of mana production. And that was with a slow hand.

While I appreciate the suggestion, I don't think that is the direction I really want to take this deck. Perhaps as a sideboard card to have a different plan for game two.

yeah, that was the idea. just a good beat stick that is hard to deal with.

yes, was planning on that. just hadn't gotten to it yet.

hmm. some interesting suggestions, certainly not bad by any measure. lets discuss them a bit. here are my thoughts:

[[carrion feeder]] is an excellent card. but like I mentioned about [[vengeful dead]] in a post above, it feels like a "win more" card here because it relies on the combo I already have to do anything, rather than being a combo piece like it normally is. Despite the fact that sacrificing creatures is exactly what the deck does... it is really the ETB triggers I am interested in. I am not really sacrificing creatures for value with death triggers or enters the graveyard triggers in this deck, so a free sacrifice outlet isn't as strong as it seems like it should be. if I need [[vizier of many faces]] in the graveyard I can simply cast it and have it be a 0/0, and there really are not any other creatures I want there. [[body double]] is purely for redundancy and resiliency. fun fact about the embalm token vizier makes, since copying effects like [[cleaver skaab]] care about printed text on a card, and the embalmed token has the printed text of the copied card (in addition to being a white zombie), the tokens created by [[cleaver skaab]] enter as the thing copied by vizier, rather than the base 0/0 vizier.
in general, [[carrion feeder]] is usually a combo piece, or at least a synergy piece because many zombie decks can reanimate their creatures or like them dying, so it really shines in those kinds of decks. but this deck doesn't really do that.

[[nim deathmantle]] is one of my favorite cards, and I can certainly see the utility it provides. however, I would have to equip it for each creature that I sacrificed, which costs 4, and [[priest of gix]] only gives me BBB. If I used it to reanimate, then I would get 3 priests (original + two token copies), which would net me 5 extra B after using [[Nim deathmantle]]'s ability, which is enough to sacrifice again, plus BB left over... except I don't get the mana until after ETB, and the reanimate ability triggers when the creature dies.
so if I don't have the 4 right then, I cannot do it. I would need at least 7 total (3 to sacrifice and 4 to reanimate), which is asking a lot for a deck with no ramp. also... it just adds more steps and complicates the combo. the more pieces a deck needs out at a time to do their combo, the more chances it can be disrupted. simpler is better. I do love janky decks built around [[nim deathmantle]] though. good, if a bit expensive to use, for resiliency from destruction or damage based spot removal. :) that being said, [[vizier of many faces]] just lets me have the token, with no strings attached. much simpler than having to equip it on the death trigger and spending 4 additional mana each time I want to loop through my combo. the token already is what I want it to be. or perhaps you are thinking of replacing [[arcane adaptation]] or [[maskwood nexus]]? they are both cheaper to use, and let me sacrifice [[priest of gix]] without embalming [[vizier of many faces]] because my all my creatures are already zombies, which is the important part. and [[maskwood nexus]] lets me pump out blockers if need be. It also gives me a way to go wide without comboing if I really need to.

[[araumi of the dead tide]] is an interesting one and I could easily see a sweet deck built around it, however I am not sure this deck is the right one. I would probably build some kind of dredge variant that gets value from self mill. in this deck, compared to what is in it already, I still have to encore the creature from my graveyard, and I also have to have 1-3 other cards in my graveyard to exile aside from the card I want to return. and I have to cast the creature from the graveyard as well. it isn't a bad idea, but it feels like extra steps. in addition, it ends up being more mana overall than [[body double]] because I have to cast [[araumi of the dead tide]] and then also encore the creature I want to reanimate ([[priest of gix]] or [[cleaver skaab]]). so it ends up being 6 or 7 mana total, albeit over two turns due to summoning sickness, but then the issue is still having at least 6-7 mana anyways because I need to combo the turn I encore because the token copies get exiled at the end of the turn.
If I encore [[priest of gix]] it isn't as much of an issue if I am playing against more than one opponent, because it gets me an extra BBB for every token, but against just one person, or if I am encoring [[cleaver skaab]], I get no such boost in mana. [[body double]] just lets me have my creature with no strings attached, and no extra cards needed in graveyard, and does not exile the card it copies. so even if I sacrifice it with [[cleaver skaab]], and the tokens are copies of [[body double]] (which they are not), or if it gets bounced or removed another way, I can still target [[priest of gix]] in the graveyard with another [[body double]]. it is a little more expensive to get out initially, but it also has fewer limitations. I don't have to wait another whole turn to get the card I need, and I need less mana overall to do what I want. 5 total instead of 6-7.
that being said I do like the early defense that [[araumi of the dead tide]] provides. there is certainly good value to be had in a good blocker until I can get set up.

ah, linking cards in comments is actually pretty easy. you format it like this: [[card name here]]. that being said it does not work for any cards with apostrophes in the name. like say... accorder's shield. for some reason it needs a delimiter for ' but I don't know if there is one. ends up looking like this: [[accorder's shield]], instead of like this [[wash away]]. also, when a comment with the links initially gets posted, it will not appear to have worked. you will need to refresh the page for it to appear properly. anyone else who sees it though will see the links.

as for the deck, yes, it does have very little interaction. I could probably use some removal, and some additional protection. but I do think the support can facilitate getting the pieces I need, and even a bit of resiliency with the graveyard based cards. perhaps [[consult the necrosages]] for some flexibility, or [[supreme will]] to either dig or counter. maybe even something like [[drown in the loch]].

[[worldspine wurm]] into [[worldspine wurm]]. wow... that is brutal. just do that over and over again, getting a ton of 5/5 tramplers each time.

[[Soldevi Adnate]] is a sweet card, but I am not sure what it would really do for the deck. it adds mana but... does not add to the board while doing so. my creatures don't really do anything when they die, but rather when they enter the battlefield, and the only creature I want in the graveyard is blue anyway, which [[soldevi adnate]] can't sacrifice.

[[Vengeful dead]] is a far more interesting card, but it feels like a "win more" type of card as the interaction that fuels it already wins the game by itself, and vengeful dead does not really contribute to the board state, per se, without that interaction.
that being said it would be funny to keep doubling it the fair way and getting a ton of death triggers that way. but it is really slow. kind of like a wonky cat/oven combo.

some interesting suggestions. the transmute is a great idea I think, but I am not sure I want to remove anything I already have to fit those cards in. I have tutors, I have sacrifice outlets, and I have counter spells.

unfortunately, I think [[Perplex]] is just about the worst counter spell in magic, as even an empty hand can be discarded to prevent [[Perplex]] from countering things so it really can't counter the last card in their hand, and some decks want to dump their hand anyway. I do like the transmute, but I don't think it is worth it to sacrifice the ability to actually counter things when need be. plus I already have [[wash away]], which can potentially counter things for just U instead of 1UU if it was cast from anywhere but the hand. so it is hard for me to justify swapping them.

[[dimir house guard]] is an interesting pick, but, again, only for the transmute. as a creature it does not really interact with my combo beyond being a sacrifice outlet. it is a free sac outlet which is definitely a plus, but I already have [[deadly dispute]] which draws me cards and gives me a treasure as well as letting me get vizier into the graveyard, or [[final parting]] or [[unmarked grave]] which just tutor directly into the graveyard anyways.

could also consider the new equipment creature [[Cloudsteel kirin]].

another card that might be fun here is sundial of the infinite.

not a bad idea. works well with burn.

Indeed. In all admission I am very much a timmy player, so most of my decks are not good, but do powerful things... In happy Christmas-land with a perfect draw. :)

That being said, yes, that is the line.

Yeah, no blue ritual creature sadly. I thought about [[maskwood nexus]], and it could work here. Not sure what I would take out for it. [[Wash away]] I guess?

[[Body double]] is not a bad idea, could also fit that in instead of [[overcharged amalgam]] perhaps. [Lazav, the multifarious]] is cool, but I think it might not work like I want here because he is legendary. So any token copies from [[cleaver skaab]] get legend ruled. So I could get infinite black mana, but not the infinite creatures.

I do have access to cultivate though. going to tweak this deck a bit. it isn't particularly good... but it is pretty fun to hit the combo. :)