dknight27

Yep, you answered your own question. Basically the biggest problem in magic is getting the balance of lands vs non lands to hit when you want it to hit, so that you can drop lands to hit your operative curve quickly, hit your full curve on time, then draw as few lands as possible after that. Fetch lands do this better than pretty much every other mechanic designed to date.

For example, this decks operative curve (the minimum amount of lands the deck can survive on and still be functional) is 2. 27 cards in the deck are 2 drops or lower, so as long as you have 2 lands out you can do what the deck needs to do to survive. The decks full curve (the min amount of lands the deck needs to do everything) is 5, so any land you draw after that is a wasted draw. BUT, its essential you get the 2 lands you need in the first 2 turns and reach the full 5 quickly after that, so you need a way to accelerate land saturation early but remove it after the opening. Thus, fetch lands do EXACTLY what you need them to do in both situations. The small loss of life, 3-5 ish, is immaterial compared to the ability to not topdeck a land when you need material. Realistically, fetch lands should be more expensive than they are, and they're already a decent chunk of cash.

Same comment about opt in this one, but other than that this looks like it does exactly what it should do

Another deck I like very much.

I'm not seeing the 24 land being that beneficial with such a low curve, no man lands, and no need to keep mana open for counter spells and is more than capable of operating on only 1 land for a couple turns if necessary.

I'm also seeing opt being a better choice over serum visions (instant speed, pre-scry).

Perhaps Mindbreak trap should be considered as a generic combo hate, anti-supreme verdict.

Other than that, this looks extremely solid. Keep it up friend

I love builds like this.

I think you can get away with only 21 lands, and I don't really see a need for karakas unless you're in a meta that's heavy with targets. Another options is to keep karakas and run vendilion clique and reek some havoc with that combo (block, bounce, replay, hand devastation).

I can also see a potential problem with the 4 ponders and 4 brainstorms, as 8 copies of a tactics only card has the potential to clog the opening hand and hurt your ability to respond turn 1 and 2 (of note, I love both cards, I just see 8 copies being slightly too high). I would think dropping it to 2 ponders and 4 brainstorms would be enough tactical cards, which would open up spots for more control cards. Suggestions being disrupt, spell pierce, spell snare.

Other than that I see this being extremely reactive and holding its own. Nice job

it's probably best if we go our separate ways, peace be the journey

As for this one, let me start by saying that this is positively a work in progress, and I admit its not ready for the factory floor. To my knowledge, no direct interaction (besides high mana cost enchantments and psionic blast) has been printed for modern, which is a HUGE problem for mono-blue decks. That being said, I refuse to believe this mechanic is untenable, and thus the search continues.

Secondly, let me be clear in saying that nothing I say here is meant to demean you, put you down, or dissuade you from playing or pursuing magic. I say this because I gathered from your two comments on my decks that you are a newer player. I think this because you said my other deck has no win conditions and is missing a point, when in fact the structure (if not the cards or strategy) is a cookie cutter control build, which occupies about 1/3 of the decks its possible to build in magic (the other 2/3 being aggro and combo).

So, going on the assumption that you're a newer player (not an insult, and maybe im just reading the whole thing wrong), but let me explain some of the synergy and strategy this deck has going for it.

Basically, a control build like this stops the opponent from fielding their win condition if its aggro or stops the search and execution process if its combo, long enough to get a win condition on the board (while having the resources available to protect it and still maintain control). This deck accomplishes that with disciple of the ring (which I've never used before but wanted to test) and gearhulk, which is arguably one of the best additions to control in the history of the game (it flashes in with a control effect and then sits as a 5/6 beater putting opponent on a 4 turn clock). Yes, that's only 5 cards in the whole deck that act as a win condition, but the rest of the deck supports this few win conditions because they provide tactical advantage (rearrangement of the hand/moving through the deck), as well as tempo advantage (making opponent waste time/mana so you see more cards from the deck anyway), so really the consistency of seeing a win condition is much higher than it seems. In addition, search for azcanta is is just a plain old stupid card for control as it initially acts as a better version of a scry effect (like sensei's divining top), but turns, rather easily and quickly into a mana/card advantage producing engine of control doom. In a deck like this, and so many others, that mainly relies on instants/sorceries, the land version of azcanta is about as good as it gets. Plus, even if you don't have enough mana to consistently use its grab effect, it ups your available mana count, which is wonderful in a control deck that is starving for that gearhulk.

As for the idea of real synergy, yes I admit this isn't the most synergetic deck ever built, as I've said above this is very much still in beta stage, but the way the win conditions fit into the control elements is solid, search for azcanta feels right at home, and for the budget this deck is made for, its synergy isn't half bad. Disciple of the ring can be a real powerhouse considering that all it needs is a surplus of instants/sorceries and available mana (both of which this deck has). You can completely shut down non-creature spells, buff itself past the competition, buff itself for the win, tap its way past the competition, untap itself to block, untap a gearhulk to block, etc. And, being a 3/4 in base, its immune to the rule of 3 (3 damage being the standard burn damage used to murder creatures).

So, to overview what the deck does again, it has turn 1 and 2 plays basically every time to make sure you stop opponent's tempo grab, solidly holds onto the middle game, activates a win condition, protects it, and finishes out a grind. Every card is meant to further this purpose, and with the edition of supreme will and censor, I couldn't resist at least trying this build (as both cards are effective in the early game as affordable and diverse counters but if they can't be used to counter they work as a draw engine).

Just an explanation to perhaps clarify what my intentions were. Again, I'm not trying to be an ass at all.

As to my inclusion of gifts and why I'm not running any of the regular gifts combos, I've made plenty of decks like that and wanted to try something else.
I've had the hypothesis for a while now that gifts has potential in regular control builds to generate both card advantage and control combos with things like snap and gearhulk. Yes, it could be read as a 4 mana instant speed draw 2, but the grave effect makes it so much more useful in my opinion, especially for a control build that relies on tempo control and a decent supply of available mana. By running lingering souls, I can tailor my other 3 choices to counteract whatever deficit I've got going on and to chance the composition of the remainder of the deck, all while retaining card advantage. I've had some success picking 2 lands, lingering souls, and another copy of gifts, or a land, opt, souls, and gifts. In either case, opponent gets punished for basically every choice and you get what you want.
Now, I fully acknowledge that gifts is devastating as a combo setup, but again, this build is an attempt to test my theory that gifts is good as a standalone in control (with some minor acquisitions). We shall see how it plays out.

As for the colonnades, I know im in the vast minority of magic players for thinking so, but I don't think it's anywhere near as valuable as the current price would argue. Yes, its a win condition that doubles as a land, is immune to the rule of 3 damage, and happens to produce 2 of the 3 major control colors, and gains all the other advantages of man lands (immunity to stuff like abrupt decay, kozilek, etc), but the short version of my problem with it is this: I don't want to play it in the first 2 turns because I want the mana available (so I don't want it in my opening hand), and I would rather topdeck a card I can use for the turn, so I don't want to top deck it at all, meaning the only time I want to see it is while I have enough mana available for a counter/control element but not enough field presence/available resources to press forward with a win condition. Thus, I don't want to count on it as a land, or as a win condition.

Just my thoughts and an explanation of my choices. Maybe I'm dead wrong

Meaning no offense, but it should be pretty obvious what this deck is supposed to do. It's got the classic framework of a control deck, a couple win conditions that fit into the rest of the framework, and the remainder cards that control the boardstate, control the tempo, and generate tactical and card advantage.
So, what does this deck do? It says "no" until one of the win conditions connects.

The win conditions being the scarab god (one of the best win conditions ever made), gearhulk (that doubles as a control mechanic), and lingering souls (which has excellent synergy with gifts ungiven).

who knows, maybe I'm way off base. Truth be told I don't even like zombies or tribal mechanics in general

Sure, in a vacuum its too slow, and I'm not claiming its tier 1, but the turn 1 inquisition of kozilek that black decks are going to run in modern takes care of the tempo problem, and the other zombie mechanics shut down opponent's creature tempo, so I'm not seeing this card as a lost cause, even in the net-deck hell that modern is

I'm surprised to see no summoner's pact in here as it does almost everything you want. Ups the spell count, fetches a win condition, if glimpse of nature isn't in play yet it fetches a wraith to draw, if glimpse is in play it fetches a 0 for upped spell count and a +1, or it grabs a spirit guide as a mana source.
Yes, it makes this a turn 1 only deck, but since that's the point I don't see it being a problem

Also, I'm seeing a problem in running 4 shield spheres over 4 crimson kobolds as the sphere won't be able to attack with flame kin zealot and kobolds will, cutting short one of your win conditions.

The biggest challenge I see this deck facing as it is is that 22 lands for such a miniscule curve is a waste of spots. Realistically you could get away with 20 and be more than fine, or even drop it to 18 or 19, especially with how many search lands you're running.
I'm also not the biggest fan of dash hopes in here, both because of its specific mana cost, which drives down your ability to play it turn 2, and because running counters requires open mana, which this deck won't have in the early game and will struggle with until the late middle game. You would much rather play your 1 drop turn 1, then play a second 1 drop turn 2 and have your other mana open to respond, then go from there. In addition, its a bad topdeck as its conditional to spells being cast rather than anything that is in play, thus making it unable to affect boardstate. So, if you dopdeck it while you are behind, you're screwed. It also gives the opponent the option to eat the 5 and retain both card advantage and tempo, which is a problem in a deck that eats its own life. I would perhaps consider inquisition of kozilek as it ups the 1 drops, ups the turn 1 dicard greatness that buys time, and isn't as mana specific.
I also see a problem with running 4 claim's as they require applicable targets, and you only have 8 in the deck, so its a brick till you get it to work. Yes it fetches the juggernauts, but running 4 ups the chances drastically of seeing it sit in your hand for a wile while you lose the field. Maybe drop it to 2.
Just my thoughts, not trying to hate on the deck. I love builds like this

Agreed on all counts

A lot of the theoretical structure looks good here. I particularly like goblin dark-dwellers, but I'm seeing a problem with the lands, specifically the tempo problem you will almost certainly have. 7 of your lands come in conditionally untapped, 6 of your lands come in tapped (wilds produces a tapped), and 8 come in untapped but producing 1 color. This seems ripe for the chance at a hand where you drop a tapped land, flowed by a second tapped land before you ever get the chance to act or respond in the first 2 turns, which is a major problem for a deck like this. If you don't have 2 untapped lands available turn 2, a deck that runs heavy counterspells at 2 drops like this loses all the tempo it needs to stay afloat. I would consider dropping temple of epiphany entirely, as the scry isn't worth the loss of tempo, and switching to a guaranteed untapped early game land, some of which are slightly more expensive, so a basic might be the best option in your price range.

I'm also not seeing too much advantage from running 4 atarka's commands, as the burn damage is nice but not your win condition, the creature buff is conditionally advantageous (tokens galore), and the other 2 don't help enough to justify 4 copies (you run 4 so you will have a shot at having it in your opening hand. Personally I would prefer something that helped retain card advantage and tempo like remand, or another control element which keeps you alive until your win conditions start ticking.

I'm also surprised to see no 1 drop blue tactical cards like opt in here, as they are the bread and butter of running blue in a deck like this. Opt goes for a quarter a pop nowadays, so for a dollar you get a turn 1 play that ups the consistency of your deck, combos beautifully with your young pyromancers, and is one of the best topdecks you could hope for (gives you a cheap and decent choice).

Temur charm seems a bit shallow in this build. It's removal condition is highly conditional (you need a creature that will win the fight, which is 5 targets in this deck (4 more for a flipped delver, but you still might lose it), the counter is just a more expensive and high maintenance version of mana leak, and the non-block abil is a bad addendum to a win condition. Yes, it gives you a little choice, but with the limited lands in this deck, and the overall conditional nature of the choice, many better options for the deck exist in my mind.


All of this being said, I'm not trying to hate on the deck at all. I love that you went for it, even on a budget. Just trying to give a little feedback and help move the old girl along so you can stay consistent with it and survive long enough to cast the goblin into a bolt, murder off a creature, and start plowing away.

Thanks for the input, doing stuff like this is my favorite part of magic, or games in general. Architecting concepts that underlie what's going on in game mechanics is a blast.
It's worth noting that I've had success with ojutai pulling back thermo-alchemist, especially in decks that basically run thermo and nothing else but spells. I know the little guy doesn't see much play, but ive used him as a win condition in a deck that does nothing else but control and its feels great to ojutai him back at the end of opponent's turn, draw a card, and next turn tap him up for a couple damage and keep doing it every turn after that.

All true, I'm just trying to glimpse some advantage in splashing in 1 copy to topdeck, improve field presence, and net you a +1. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I at least see the potential

This is exactly why I play sleight of hand over serum vision all day every day. And I totally agree, the unpredictability and lack of flash drops the old girl down a peg. But in my mind running 1 copy (or 2 if you're feelin frisky) that you will almost certainly topdeck removes most of the danger of a missed exile and is almost guaranteed to give you some advantage for the cost. But that's me

I started with running 4 helixes, but trimmed them down because this deck REQUIRES a turn 1 play or reaction, and has a decent chance of operating on only 1 land for a few turns (which is the point), so helix was hurting the 1 drop saturation and because of its specific mana cost my thoughts were to cut it way down to streamline the whole thing.
As for death's shadow, ya that's well worth the consideration for sure. I've never really used the little guy, but I like the idea.
And, in response to the general notion that this deck bleeds like a stuck pig, I wholeheartedly agree. However, my wager with this deck is that it is so fast, counterproductive to opponent's plans, and overstuffed with material that it can win before opponent has the chance to capitalize on the 10 or so lp it will drain all by itself by about the 5th turn.

True, ya any land hate or slowing process and this deck will stall out pretty quickly. I guess the wager is a turn 1 discard option buys enough time to ignite the win conditions and then sideboard in some heavy assistance

Will do.
Ya, I was pondering (I wish) swiftspear, and had mixed feelings on it. could definitely be a powerhouse in here though, especially if I cut another land or two. I'm always hesitant to dip below 19 because of the mulligans I know im gunna take, but perhaps 18 isn't unreasonable