dknight27

It's a shame alright

I gotta tell you, I love what is going on here. I've been theorizing with chittering rats for a while now trying to fit it into an existing dynamic or create a new one that can use it.

I see a couple things that might be worth considering in here. 1 copy of mana leak seems useless to me as the math on drawing it when it is potent is very poor. Illusionist's stratagem might be worth considering over ghostly flicker as you don't seem to have a big problem with mana here and it can give you some good card advantage so the 1 more mana to cast might be worth the draw. Jace, vryn's prodigy seems like a natural in here as you are already low on 2 drops and it helps you with unnecessary cards on the back end like multiple copies of aether vial, redundant lands, or discard outlets when opponent has no hand.

I'm not that big a fan of the twilight mire-esk lands as they can mess up your 1 drops on turn 1 so you might be eating a tempo or a mulligan. 1 more of the fast lands each would probably be better.

I'm also seeing a good chance to fit in some 1 drop tactical controls like sleight of hand, serum visions, etc. Right now you've got 6 1-drop dicards controls, 4 aether vials, for 10 consistent 1 drop accuracy cards. Add in some blue tactical and you are almost guaranteed to have a turn 1 boost that is basically never a dead drop anyway.

Just my thoughts. I love what you are going for here. Keep it up

For an "as is" built, this looks mighty solid. I love ojutai's command to grab back snap and stoneforge, sun titan to grab back whatever you need, I'm surprised to see no fetch lands, but maybe you are running short.

Nice job

Your lands might need a bit of work here friend

Gotcha. that should be enough to work with. From what I'm gathering here, this is a proactive control deck that wants to hit with master of cruelties then use a mechanic to hit the 1 damage to finish em off.
The major problem with this though is that the two parts of the build contradict each other in every other situation but a fielded and connected master of cruelties. If you don't connect a master of cruelties, you will have a hard time dropping opponent to 0, and if you do field a master later in the game, any damage you've dealt until that point is useless. So, in order to make the system you've set up here really work, you have to minimize the finishing damage to the point that you can have it when you want it, but not have it clog the way to fielding your master and controlling stuff till then.

The first thing to fix this that comes to mind is trimming the creature presence and not relying on keeping a creature alive for 2 turn cycles (master doesn't let others attack, so you need 2 turns to win with combat damage). A good way around this is with manlands like blinkmoth nexus and creeping tar pit. They keep your land count at the accelerated level and act as the final push that are immune to sorceries (your own damnations, etc). As it is, 25 lands without any man lands or tactical lands (field of ruin, ghost quarter), is too high. Any way you slice it, decks like this aren't going to win quickly, so 25 lands isn't going to get you to a win condition any faster than 23 lands (including a healthy dose of man lands). I would give serious consideration to dropping the temples altogether. They are too slow and give less benefit than a man land, as noted above. Some polluted delta's would go a long was as well.

2 copies of blightning is also a bad balance in a build like this. The advantage of blightning is to retain card advantage while disrupting opponent's tempo and draining their life, and as stated above we don't need it to drain life BEFORE you make the master hit, as its wasted damage. So, a card that does something similar that isn't a possible (and probable) redundancy would be a better choice. I love 4 copies of electrolyze for this. Works as removal early, retains card advantage and tempo, and can be used as the finisher once you hit with the master.

The planeswalkers are ok, but jace just has a so/so effect with only 1 copy (unreliable), and saheeli runs into the same problems as above (any damage she does before the master is useless).

Jin-gitaxias doesn't really fit either. It is a win condition all on its own, so field it and you don't really need the rest of the system you're building. On top of that, 10 mana is a hell of a thing to have (you give opponent the chance to counter and a whole turn to remove it afterward before it really matters). A better way to maximize your system while keeping the tempo is with torrential gearhulk. A beast with flash that can snap back a bolt after you connect with master for game is perfect for this build. Run 4 bolts, 4 electrolyzes, 3 torrential gearhulks, 3 creeping tar pits, and 4 master of cruelties and that should be enough to get the job done. Then you can use the rest of the spots you've created to max out the control and tactics (1 drop draw) to make sure you stay alive and keep control.



So, to sum up. My suggestions are

take out: jin-gitaxias, tetsuko, blightning, the planeswalkers, and the temple lands

Add in- man lands, electrolyes, torrential gearhulks, and more control/tactical goodness




Just my thoughts, not trying to put down the build or anything like that

Hi friend. What kind of budget are we working with here? I see some possible areas of improvement, but it would be easier to discuss them if I know how much possible cash is on the table

Clever title, as I assume the implication is "baby don't hurt me"

May I ask why the massive sideboard? Just things you were considering for the build?

Hi friend. I see a few potential problems in here. Since you have goyf and good lands, I'll assume there are no budgetary concerns.

In general, you are a little 2-choked, meaning the vast majority of your deck costs 2 mana, so you're curve is ineffective. There are some good 1 drop options that would help speed this deck up and make it more consistent. The biggest one that comes to mind is sleight of hand or serum visions, both of which serve 2 purposes. Firstly, they are magnificent turn 1 tactical drops that are basically never dead draws and help you up the speed of the deck like crazy. Secondly, it ups your sorcery count to make goyf bigger. Some good 3 drops to consider would be rogue refiner (hits and draws (energy isn't really important)) and sin prodder (draw/burn engine with menace for excellent damage option).

Sylvan caryatid doesn't really belong in here for a few reasons. Firstly, the curve on this deck is low, so you don't really need him as a mana producer to get to bigger spells effectively. Secondly, the land choices are good (I would prefer to run 8 fetch lands (helps goyf get big and makes sure you never have color problems)) so you don't need him to fix color problems. And thirdly, you don't really need him as a blocker and as you're running only 13 other creatures he takes away the aggressive swarm this deck could have going for it if you subbed in an agro option.

Domri doesn't fit given the current balance of creatures to non-creatures. His first abil is not going to land effectively (17/60 hits), the second is conditional and realistically doesn't have good targets for you (your guys are smaller and caryatid can't fight), the last abil is great but slow and better options exist for support in a build like this. Jace, cunning castaway would fit well and would keep the planeswalker count in to help pump up goyf.

Mana leak is a bad choice in this build. It's reactive, conditional, and loses effectiveness the later in the game it gets. Plus, as stated above, 2 mana is your number in this deck, so turn 2 you want to drop a creature and get to work, meaning you don't want to wait around for opponent to play something so you can counter it.

Voltaic brawler is an ok agro beast, but since you aren't running an energy build its really only a 3/2 2-drop with an ok ignition effect. There are worse options for sure, so its your call.

Heroic intervention is super duper reactive and basically wont help you unless opponent runs a nuke. I would say swap it to the sideboard to keep it handy to wreck control builds.





A couple other general cards to consider are:

Goblin dark dwellers: fits perfectly with the good removal and whatnot you're running, and a 4/4 with menace is a pretty good sledge.

Thrun the last troll: hexproof sledge of doom

Bloodbraid elf: tempo and card advantage madman




Just my thoughts, not trying to put you down or anything like that.

Well, strip mine is legacy, but I see what you're saying. Ghost quarter/field of ruin and their ilk would work well in here (as I noted in my description), but I tend to rely on them in the sideboard and stick to man lands in the mainboard, but that's just me. You could easily invert it.

As for increasing the synergy pieces, the point of this deck is to not have to rely on any specific combo or piece of synergy, but instead play off mechanics that aid each other for a gain in card advantage and tempo that has the probability (not necessity) of assembling a strong synergy system (in this case revolving around gitrog).

I chose to run only 1 crucible because of how easy it is to fetch/return via gifts and eternal witness/academy ruins. Unless opponent is running specifically banish removal for artifacts or has a precisely times grave hate, crucible is coming back.

And, more to the point, crucible isn't a necessity in here, it just puts gitrog over the top and works well with the man lands. In fact, none of the specific pieces in here are "necessary" to get done what this deck is trying to do, because it's taking advantage of the "good stuff" idea, where you throw tempo eaters and card advantage producers at opponent until he falls over.

Looks pretty good to me. I don't really like the single copy of mana leak, as you aren't likely to draw it when it is potent, and are far more likely to topdeck it when its conditional and slow. I would personally max out remand, as it hits so hard in the early game and basically replaces itself whenever you draw it. Its also the number 1 eater of tempo and best friend of control that needs time to field a win condition, just like this build.

Personally I don't like running 4 snaps, as they are dead in the opening most of the time (don't want to waste them on a serum visions), so maybe drop out the mana leak, drop it to 3 snaps, add in 2 remands, and see how that runs? I know its not a popular opinion to run 3 snaps over 4, but I personally hate seeing one in the opening hand and running 3 cuts down on the opening hand presence but keeps it relevant.

Doesn't look like a bad build for "as is" cards. Without fetch lands, I would consider taking it down to 23 lands, as 25 is gunna choke you out pretty quickly.

Are you looking to add to this?

I'm not a big fan of painful truths in here. Turn 3 you want to drop a walker (either naturally or boosted by birds), and this deck is going to bleed life to its lands and has limited interaction so is very vulnerable to fast critters, so in my opinion the advantage painful truths gives in here isn't really worth the blood.

I would swap out both truths for some 1 drop tactical cards like serum visions, sleight of hand, opt (sleight of hand is my choice here, but that's me).

I'm also not a fan of 2 copies of mana leak, as only 2 copies means you are unlikely to have one available turn 2, and it loses effectiveness the later in the game you draw it. Plus, you need a strong turn 2 response to slow down opponent's tempo grab (which this deck needs to survive as it needs to produce 4 mana to really get moving). I would suggest upping it to 4 remands (a turn 2 remand against opponent's grab at tempo would be DEVASTATING in this build if you can follow it up with a turn 3 walker), and maybe some more interaction.

This looks pretty solid to me. The only real problem I see is that 17 lands means you will eat more mulligans (especially if you're on the play) and will have problems fielding the right colors early, which leads to eating more mulligans.

I know springleaf drum helps to fix this, "sort of" bringing your land total to 22, but its conditional (need a critter (only 8 zero drops)) and need a land to activate it, so you can't spam it in turn 1 and use it to play another 1 drop easily because this requires 4 cards in the opening hand, 2 spots of which are limited (4 drums, 8 zero drop critters). That critter is also EXTREMELY vulnerable to opponent's turn 1 lightning bolt and fatal push, which neuters drum for another turn, eating your tempo into oblivion.

That's just too high of a chance for tempo and mulligan problems for me, even if this deck is sick fast when it hits. Other than that, this looks excellent. Nice job

What are we looking at here? What are you trying to build?

Even with 24 lands, this deck seems a bit too top heavy on the curve.

Ya, its a shame that colonnade costs an arm and a leg. I honestly don't think its worth anywhere near that much cash. It's certainly a good card, but not worth 60 bucks. And, another unfortunate thing for jeskai, the red/white and blue/red man lands aren't very good,

I think the way it looks now should be just fine

Hi there friend. I love the bones you have going on here. I see a couple questions in the curve and land choices.

25 lands on such a tiny curve with only 2 man lands and no tactical lands seems very high. You can play all but 3 cards in the build including snapping back (soooooo many 1 drop goodies). Yes with 25 lands you will get to drop your gearhulk faster, but there are only 3 copies and it would be much more beneficial to have to wait a few more turns to drop the nuke-hulk and have instants to throw at opponent during those turns.

Your other option is to swap in more man lands or tactical lands, that way they keep the speed up but also net you either control or a win condition to boot. More colonnades, field of ruin, ghost quartet, etc.


I'm also surprised to not see a couple of the control instant staples in here, namely remand (#1 tempo eater in modern), negate (cheap and deadly hard no), and electrolyze (all purpose +1 and wonderful flashback target).

I would personally drop serum visions as it eats your chance to respond turn 1 (bolt/path the turn 1 drop opponent wants, or drop an ops when opponent passes). Swap them out for 4 remands, chop out 2 lands for 2 electrolyzes, and give yourself the time and targets your flash dudes need to dominate.

Just my thoughts. I've built and played quite a few of these types of builds, and I've had more success when I ran about 23 lands with a healthy chunk of man lands and tactical, and enough remands and electrolyzes to build time/eat tempo.

Just a concept I'm kicking around. It's so damn hard to run a creature based deck in modern as there are so many good removal options that shut them down that don't eat tempo. So, at least in my mind, one way to get around this is to run creatures that benefit you even if they run into normal removal.

Now, not much helps you against path to exile, but the rest of the staple removal options: terminate, fatal push, lightning bolt, damnation, wrath, etc, all lose effectiveness against a build that either doesn't respond to normal removal or recovers so quickly that it doesn't matter. Thus, a teamsters (union) theme.

Emissary grabs a land, so accelerates and retains advantage
finks is the anti-removal king
rogue refiner replaces itself when it hits
thragtusk replaces itself at death
vizier swarms like crazy in this build

All the other critters are either hexproof or shut down opponent's tempo

Some 1 drop tactical control to speed things up and the regular splash of path to exile.


The whole thing is simple, and most likely can't keep up with the heavy hitters in modern, but its a fun idea

Hi friend. I know this is an old one, but I see a couple tweaks that could help this build out.

The curve is a little skewed toward 2 drops, meaning this deck will have a rough time reacting in the early few turns cause you will be choked up turn 1 and 3. Also, I don't see any tactics cards, like brainstorm, which not only fits perfectly in this build, but with fetch lands basically guarantees that this deck will hit hard and fast at every stage. Its not a bad fit to isochron if need be, and helps even out the curve so you have something to do turn 1 and 3 in reaction or proactively.

21 lands with 6 fetches is good for this build, but honestly I would think about running a couple man lands as alt win conditions that wont be dead draws after turn 4.

Running 15 creatures in this build seems a bit high to me too. A burn spell on isochron is win condition enough to go a bit sparse on the field win conditions, especially since isochron is a dead draw without an instant in hand. Ergo, cut a few critters, up the instant count, isochron becomes more effective and the deck gains more control.

A couple of the creature choices don't make much sense to me either. Hypersonic dragon doesn't seem to give you any advantage in here, and is pretty expensive. Soulfire gransmaster is expensive to run at high capacity (need 4 extra mana to get its great effects), and realistically the lifelink won't give you that much advantage compared to a cheaper control outlet (electralize for example).

Remand would also go a long way as it triggers all your guys, buys you tempo, and retains card advantage. Play it turn 2, you gain advantage. Play it at any other time, you retain advantage. Put it on isochron and watch opponent cry as you eat his tempo and refill your hand.


Just my thoughts. Like I said, I know this one is a bit old, but I love the build idea and I want to see more of them.

fair enough. keep up the work, its super helpful for new players, helps you work things out as well, and in general helps the mtg community