dknight27

I see a couple big areas that could use some tweaking, some at the structural level.

The biggest area of possible improvement, from my perspective, is that you can basically trim the deck down to just control elements and use the leftovers as your actual win conditions. So, you can cut a bunch of the critters meant to deal combat damage and the excess support like glorious anthem, which frees up spots for ways to lock them down while you grind our your win.

The azor prison is a fantastic lock, and you have some good ways to keep it moving, but you could do quite a lot with the rest of the build to keep the control machine running. Azor is unique, as he is a control mechanic, a partial win condition, an anti-agro, and a material farm mechanic all wrapped into a 6 drop for 6. So, you can get away with lots of stuff you couldn't otherwise do because Azor picks up the slack.

On top of this, the azor prison will slow most decks down to a crawl, but deny opponents any other mechanics and you can shut them out completely. Azor prison plus authority of the consuls/kismet means opponent eats 2 turns before he can respond to basically anything, etc. Get 3 prison effects going at once and its over.

Also, blue/white is a hell of a color combo in EDH, and you are missing some of the staple badass cards/combos.

Aven mindscenson
Baird, steward of argive
Consecrated sphinx
Fatespinner
Solemn Silmilcrum
Spellseeker
Spelltithe enforcer
Sunblast angel
Trinket mage
Trophy mage
Windborn muse
Ponder
Saheeli's artistry
Aetherspouts
Brainstorm
Return to dust
Erratic Portal
Lightning grieves
Mind stone
Swiftfoot boots
Thran dynamo
Aura of silence
Authority of the consuls
Control magic
Ghostly prison
Kismet
Propaganda
Reliquary tower

Then there are the blue/white only staples like:

Godhead of awe
Isperia, supreme judge





Lastly, Azor is always STARVING for mana, as you want to consistently be able to field him, protect him, and tap out for 4 or 5 to refill the hand each turn as well as be able to play the stuff you draw. A good way to do this is to max out the 2-drop mana producers like mind stone, coldsteel heart, marble diamond, sky diamond, etc.

If you want help tearing it down to build it back up, I'd be happy to help.


Also, not trying to tear down you or your build, just sharing my thoughts.

what sort of budget are we looking at here?

This is very interesting. I've never seen an anti-meta build mixed into a zoo format.

I see a few conflicting themes though. Goyf doesn't have enough food. You have no sorceries, and no artifacts that are easily graved (relic exiles itself), so you are looking at a land/critter grave with an eventual instant. I would run 1 temple garden to ensure that your turn 2 nacatal is maxed out and you have all 3 bases covered. I don't like dryad arbor at all, as this deck is pretty sleek, can get by on 1 land for quite a while before it needs the second (if you have to), can function almost completely on 2 lands, and has no need for any more than 3 whatsoever. With the arbor, you are running 21, when this deck can easily get away with running 19. Plus the arbor comes in sick, so you can't drop your turn 1 beater, your turn 2 goyf, or your turn 3 magus. It combos decently with the copter, but as there are 2 copters and 1 arbor, I don't think its worth the consideration. Reckless rage isn't the best option for the 1-drop removal slot, as you have path to exile, flame slash (goyf food), pyrite spellbomb (goyf food), seal of fire (goyf food). I like mainboarded dromoka's command, as it gives you lots of decent options and ups the instant count, but I don't like 4 of them when atarka's command is this deck's bread and butter. I've personally never liked running 4 lavamancers, as you don't want to drop it early at all, and it works extremely well as a top deck, so in general I keep it to 2 or 3 so it hits the field with fuel ready to go. Plus, if you drop it turn 1 or 2, activating it neuters goyf.

That being said, I see PLENTY of incredible synergy in here. The more I look at naram renegade, the more I like it in here. You will almost certainly be able to chuck a land to it, and if you can't its still a 1/2 deathtouch. By the time magus of the moon hits, you are fielded and already cruising, and this deck can function on mostly mountains anyway. Plus, if you have one in the opening you can fetch basics before you drop it and be all set.

Nice work, I'm going to be thinking about this type of build for a while

Defense grid for sure will be in the side, and I would pull out the howling mines for it. Metal worker is extremely powerful for fast combos and general artifact ramp, but because it doesn't have haste it doesn't do precisely what I want 3-drops to do in this deck. If it had haste, absolutely as you could dump your whole hand if you could field it turn 1. It also fits perfectly with ballista, walker, and wurmcoil, so in a build that focuses on directly ramping into ridiculous critters it is an absolute must.

Actually, trinisphere is basically the best card in this deck for taxing, as it turns all the fantastic 0 and 1-drops opponent is going to run (should be like 30-35 cards) into non-playable 3 drops. Vintage basically runs off of turn 1 acceleration via mox-like effects, and trinisphere turns mox-like cards into dead cards. And, best of all, as most vintage decks run fewer actual lands because they supplement them with mox-like cards, you are going to basically pull out 5-7 lands in their deck without removing the card slots. Turn 1 trinisphere is devastating, and its SOOOO easy to get out in this build. Mishra's workshop does it on its own, ancient den + any mox-esk, mana crypt + any land/or other mox, black lotus on its own, sol rong + any land +any mox.

Also, it ups the tax card numbers (1 thorn, 4 sphere, 4 orb, 1 trinisphere, 1 chalice (this deck only has a single 1-drop, so turn 1 chalice on 1-drops is a winner) for a total of 10 that you want to play turn 1. If you get any of them out, it should be enough to get you through to the middle game at least. So there is a pretty good argument for including trinisphere just to up this number from 9 to 10.

Topdecking a trinisphere with any of the other tax effects in play is definitely going to dilute the effect, you're absolutely right about that, but this deck's only real goal is to drop a tax turn 1 and grind them out after that, so its really a good bet to risk the top deck redundancy.

The grid is a fantastic card for this deck, and the build could easily be rearranged to have that as its win condition. I chose to keep the build colorless so I could max out the big colorless producer lands and never have to worry about dead draws based on lack of color. But, it wouldn't be a big deal to swap in 4 great furnaces and rely on the ruby mox, mox opal, black lotus, and perhaps a little other red-producing effects to get it done. Food for thought for sure.

Im not a fan of remand in here, as you desperately want to have a turn 2 drop and don't want to pass turn 2 to keep the mana open to use remand. Inquisition of kozilek and the like would fit better in my opinion. I also like maxing out dark confidant, as its essentially a win condition on its own and your curve is very low.

In general, I like spellseeker for this deck quite a bit, as it fetches power cards like demonic tutor and cyclonic rift. And trinket mage, as it fetches the moxes, sol ring, and the rack.

I like inquisition of kozilek over spell pierce and fatal push over forked bolt, and perhaps consider dropping the wasteland count to 3, as a triple color deck with 19 lands will have a hard time sustaining itself through some mulligans because, in effect, this deck is running only 15 lands that add mana. Other than that this looks solid

Exquisite blood sets off infinite combos when you pair it with anything that does the inverse, namely stuff like epicure of blood.

The discard mechanic isn't necessary in here, as you can just use 1 shot gain/loss effects to trip the cascade once you get the 2 combo pieces in play.

Even with sol ring, this deck is WAAAAAAAAAAY too top heavy

There really isn't any advantage for making this build warrior, as nothing creates synergy for warriors. Just something to consider

Millstone i would guess, but its weak. Or chaos wand getting lucky

Collective brutality is this deck's best friend

The curve is pretty high for the land amounts you are running, and with no 1-drops at all this is going to be very slow

The bones look pretty solid here. Some land tech like field of ruin would help, and fatal push is a natural fit. I'm not sure if 2 cruel ultimatums is a solid idea, as its going to be a brick until the late/late middle game. I would consider cutting it down to 1.

Just my thoughts

Normally it would be critter-light, but you have 4 opts, 3 insights, and 2 Ral's to move through the deck more quickly, which is around 16% of the deck in tactics cards. Plus, as long as you arn't dropping your critters in the early middle game, each one of them is a win condition.

I would think about maxing negate and 2 copes of search for azcanta. 4 negate's will help keep your win conditions alive as well as stall into your win conditions, and search for azcanta is just too good to ignore. It's basically a win condition on its own in a deck like this.

I'm not a big fan of dive down in builds like this. You can get an almost identical effect from negate as well as the other utility it has over dive down, which only has 7 targets.

I also like cutting the drake to 3 mainboarded, as it hits harder when dropped in the middle game and its hard to nail the exact mana cost early, both of which suggest 3 instead of 4 copies to me.

I also HIGHLY recommend 3 star of extinctions in the side, as its this decks only recourse against the dreaded carnage tyrant, and it doubles as a semi-effective boardwipe (cost Is high, I admit).

Other than that this looks solid

I don't think you will have a problem. Cryptic, electrolyze, remand, 4 1-drop tactics cards, and 4 snaps to pull em back, all of which retain tempo, card advantage, and move through the deck.

But at least worth testing

The staples are: caged sun, expedition map, grave pact, and no mercy off the top of my head.

Swarm yard would be a good addition too



I understand the conspiracy combo, but it doesn't statistically justify its spot. You are currently running 5 critters that aren't rats, so the chances of conspiracy interacting with any of those 5 is slim. Plus, at best its going to give your rats a +1/+0, and for 5 mana on a conditional small boost it can't be justified. You could just run bad moon and achieve a better effect for a non-conditional 2 mana enchantment, or any other number of good effects that don't rely on horrible math to work. Or you could run caged sun and for 1 more mana give a better boost, that isn't conditional, and double up your mana production.
As for interacting with kindred dominance, the math on that is staggeringly low. You would need 1 of the 5 non-rats, conspiracy, and kindred dominance to hit at the same time, which isn't going to happen even with tutors. On top of this, worst case scenario you drop kindred dominance and lose 1 critter to it for a nuke that otherwise doesn't touch you, which is a hell of a bargain.

Conspiracy doesn't help you, and you're doubled up on herald's horn. I'm surprised to not see pack rat in her as well, as he is the champion of rat builds. There are some general EDH staples missing as well that would help out