TheForum

Obviously what you change depends on which way you want to take the deck. The Ascendancy makes it feel more like a mid-range deck to me than aggro. To me it feels like your current list is mostly aggro and since you aren't playing aggressively you end up saving your cards until you get one turn where you can go off.

If you wanna go midrange you could swap in more control oriented spells like Wild Slash, Reality Shift, Icy Blast, Anticipate, maybe throw in some counterspells. You could go slightly less creatures even, Monastery Mentor should hopefully be enough to build your board. Another curve topping option is Soulblade Djinn, a 4/3 flyer with a similar ability as the first part of Ascendancy. There is always Narset, Enlightened Master as a finisher as well if you go midrange.

If you wanted to go more Aggro I'd put in Swiftspears over Ojutai and Pacifism.

-Bill

I think that your problem with this deck is the fact that Panharmonicon is so incredibly versatile. It is amazing with so many things that you just wanna jam the deck full of good ETB effects that the product isn't cohesive. I agree that the best idea is probably to commit to a single idea and run with it. But once again what that strategy is, is up to you because there are a ridiculous number of ways to maximize Panharmonicon. I do have some thoughts though for you.

If you leave Green/Blue in whatever the final product is, I would recommend Rogue Refiner. With Pan out for 3 mana you get a 3/2 body 2 cards and 4 energy, that is ridiculous value.

For the Infinite Combo strategy you could try Felidar Guardian. I know you aren't using Saheeli but you can blink out any of your scion creators, or the Gearhulk. Or with Pan out you blink out multiple things, and if you ever get lucky enough to have 2 guardians and a Pan out you have another (though less likely) infinite combo but slightly more versatile since it wouldn't have to be scion related.

I'd be interested in seeing the white/blue list you have going. I assume it'd be an obnoxious control strategy cause it is w/u but still could be cool. Angel of Sanctions would be freaking annoying with Pan.

Should any of these not work out, after Gatherering ETB creatures, Pan could get silly with G/W Humans (Thalia's Lieutenant, Maulfist Revolutionary, Heron's Grace Champion), or G/U Energy (Rogue Refiner, Bristling hydra, Confiscation Coup, Servant of the Conduit).

Anyway, Panharmonicon is a silly card and I think the biggest thing you need to do is find a focus for the deck and maximize that strategy.

-Bill

Agreed with Boyf, you could use those two spots more effectively. If you feel like you run out of gas go with inspiring call, otherwise some sort of removal.

E

I can't help but feel like Wildcall isn't going to do as much as you would like here, and the deck could use a little more interaction in its place (or 2 more abzan falconers). -Boyf

Also, Hidden Strings is probably good enough to be a 4 here... -Boyf

Yes, yes it would. Walker was still destroying standard at the time of construction so it was removed from consideration due to the prohibitive cost. Now that it is down around 3 bucks I'll eventually throw a few in for sure.

I am also considering Deathmist Raptor for the Den Protector/Raptor shenanigans.

And taking this back to Theros for Fleecemane Lion over Undergrowth Champion so I have another (And true) 2 drop.

-Bill

Wouldn't hangarback walker be insane in this deck?

Also if you are going into Abzan, the charm is a great utility card, and I think a one of Rally is the right call.

E

Another route would be to add Gilt leaf winnower, yes its conditional removal but attached to a decent creature, add in some obelisk of urd to help buff and could be cast easily with convoke, and add two whip of Erebos since so many of your guys have solid etb effects.

If you are looking to push damage through, Cavalry Pegasus can lead to some shenanigans.

I share your concerns about Avaricious Dragon, but I hadn't played with it enough to know. I actually just played it some with Eric tonight, and I'm still not sure. Never did they truly hurt me, and there were times where I was behind and forced to play it and discard 2 or 3 cards. However, I made a point to consider if another card would have helped me more in these instances, and the answer was generally no.

I'm still not convinced that they're the optimal card, but I think it's possible that they still might be. There are ways, however imperfect, of planning around its drawback. Mostly this has to do with taking a mulligan - asking myself if it's a liability for the greedy one (too many high cost cards, multiple Avaricious Dragons, etc). I think I'll have to continue doing this for now. There were just as many times where the draw ability was a big help. With uncertainty, I'd say the has been worth the reward.

So I'm not sure the Avaricious Dragon is doing much for you. While it is strictly better than Furnace Whelp and is another dragon, its discard ability seems to be a big drawback for your deck as it is constructed. Though it is a 4 drop you hardly ever play it on turn four, favoring Thunderbreak or not dumping your hand over having the 4/4 flyer out. So you usually wait until turn 6 or so to play it and it seems a little underwhelming at that point. It doesn't really win you the game, it contributes by drawing you more cards but you then have to play them even if it isn't to your advantage either forcing you to commit too much capital onto the board or blow your burn spells at a time that isn't always to your advantage. I have some ideas that might better take the place of a couple or all of the Avaricious Dragons. I know you are in a precarious place already with creature count and number of dragons so a balance will need to be struck for sure.

Ideas for your Consideration:

Dictate of the Twin Gods - I would include maybe 2 over two Avaricious Dragons. Combos well with them actually, being able to double the damage of the burn spells you draw so that the downside of having to playing them on your turn is mitigated. Plus it doubles Tempest damage so playing an Avaricious after the Dictate could be a big damage total.

Kolaghan, The Storms Fury - I know you would have to splash black but it is a ridiculous play in this deck. You dash it in every turn for extra tempest damage plus it has a multiplying Battle Cry effect for your dragons which could be devastating to your opponent.

Twinflame - This is less likely but I wanted to mention because it is cool. For 5 mana you create tokens of 2 of your dragons getting double tempest triggers. The tokens do get exiled but they'll be big creatures so you can be aggressive with the tokens keeping the actual creature in reserve if needed.

Anger of the Gods - Another control option to make sure you get to the mana you need to play your bigger threats that don't have drawbacks

Unfortunately there aren't many more Dragons to choose from in the 4-5 CMC that could fill in for the Avaricious Dragons but you could use Fanatic of Mogis as a better late game 4 drop possibility than the Dragon.

Mostly though I think your best options are either the Dictate or Kolaghan as fill ins (or Berserker's Onslaught, but that is a less good Dictate in my opinion). But you also may not see waiting to play the Avaricious as enough of a problem and that is fine as well. I am curious to hear your opinion on the matter as the person actually playing the deck.

-Bill

I really like the Fabled Hero idea. I like it better than the other creatures I listed. Having another Heroic target will help significantly I think.

Boon of Erebos has always been a consideration as another protection card. Not positive I need it but it's the next card in as far as heroic triggers go.

I like the versatility of the Charm but I'd really only ever use two of the modes and I have the same problem as with Ethereal Armor. Because the ordeals leave the board I'd be losing a lot of my investment by returning the creature to my hand. Granted it would protect the creature and Gift of Orzhova but I don't know.

-Bill

I agree that the bestow cards are too situational and you would be better served to play more heroic threats, say Favored Hoplite and Fabled Hero. Also consider replacing the armors with either Boon of Erebos or Orzhov Charm. These changes add more heroic creatures and more enablers so you should be on track more often.

So I have 3 main problems with this deck and I'm not positive there is a way to fix all of them.

1. I get stuck with my bestow creatures but not my Heroic targets. I get forced to play them when on their own they are crappy. I get stomped.

2. I get a creature empty my hand making it huge/protecting it but I can't get ahead on the battlefield and without evasion I can't get through and then I slowly die.

3. They kill my one good creature and I don't have time to rebuild.

My ideas for solutions:

1. Limit/remove the bestow creatures and add creatures that are better on their own.
Out: Nighthowler, Spiteful Returned In: High Priest of Penance, maybe Fencing Ace, maybe Underworld Coinsmith, Maybe Eidolon Countless Battles, maybe Blood Scrivener

2. Gift of Orzhova. Gives my creature evasion and lifelink.

3. Dying Wish maybe or something like Immortal Servitude or this is where Merciless Eviction would come in. Dying Wish would make an opponent have to think long and hard about killing a giant hero or even make it not possible for them to do it if it is big enough. Combos great with Eidolon and Armor. Immortal Servitude brings them back. Merciless lets me clear their board in retaliation.

To address your comments.

I'm not worried about the double symbols in mana costs really. I forgot I could still use my Caves of Koilos so I now have 14 (and will eventually have 16) sources of Dual black and white mana so hopefully it wouldn't be an issue.

I haven't really given Blind Obedience much careful thought until now and I'm not positive it would truly be helpful. I really like the card and want more for Azorious but here I think I'd rather run other things. The biggest help in my opinion would be preventing an opponent from recovering especially by getting bulk tokens but if that is their best option I imagine I'll still win even if it takes an extra turn or two. Crypt Ghast might be too high of a CMC for what it would give me.

Looking over the deck and thinking about what may help me I'm not sure I even need Ethereal Armor honestly. The Ordeals only ever last a turn or two so the bonus from them is limited. Combined with Dying wish it'd be great but I also think Dying Wish could be great without it. Gift of Orzhova I feel is the aura I really want, the evasion alone is what I'm really looking for but adding lifelink really pushes it over the top in my opinion.

When this deck does what it wants to I think it is one of my best decks, its making that happen more consistently is what I need to figure out.

Thanks

-Bill

I think you should consider the Lord of the Accursed as well. Along the same lines as Liliana's Mastery, it makes your zombies bigger and more formidable. The great thing about it though is it's ability to give all of your zombies menace. You have the ability to get a super wide board at a moments notice and over and over again. The problem usually is that your little dudes can't always be the finishers you need them to be if you are afraid of getting stomped after you attack. With the Lord your creatures are bigger and harder to block so more get through. Worth looking at in my opinion. An added bonus of the Lord's ability to get you through a stalled board, I don't think you'd really have to run much removal at all, maybe just your couple of Dark Salvations for stubborn creatures or Grasp of Darkness.

As an aside, I love Voldaren Pariah. Easily one of my favorite cards from Shadows block and I don't know if I'll ever do anything with it because this deck is literally amazing with it and whatever I would come up with thats different, I'd just be thinking it isn't as cool as this deck. Love this one, it does some crazy stuff.

-Bill

I would definitely like to have at least one more Scarab God, I am hoping they drop a little once the core of the current zombies pro deck rotates out of standard. Same with Liliana but I'm not holding my breath there.

I've thought about Mastery and to me it seemed like a win more card if I already had an established board. I didn't think about the recovery from a board wipe but thats a good point to consider. Running one or two could work.

I think I would try to keep the curve a little lower; this deck wants a big threat fast, and it wants mana up at all times to keep it alive with Gods Willing effects, so i would avoid cards over three mana. Merciless Eviction is a dope card, but at six mana in a 23 land deck, you're never going to cast it. I would instead look to add a few more efficient threats; the deck does a good job of making huge guys and keeping them alive, but if the opponent does manage to kill the threat, drawing a Spiteful Returned isnt going to put the pressure back on the opponent. -Boyf.

So, to address your last point, I LOVE plague belcher, but in this deck, I think Colossus is too good not to have 4, so I would go with that one. As far as the big picture is concerned, I think you're just a little light on OOMF at the end of the game; this deck always does awesome things, but they don't always translate to wins. Colossus will help that a bit, as would more Scorpion Gods, but also think about Liliana's Mastery. It's a NUTS card, giving you two 3/3 creatures for 5 mana in a worst case, Mike just played Day of Judgment scenario, and it's almost always going to be better than that because it will turn all of your cute little Crypt Breaker/Relentless Dead/Amalgams that do cool stuff into legit win pressure.-Boyf.

PS, One more Westvale Abbey wouldn't hurt finish either.

Eager to see any comment you all have on this deck. Its by far my favorite to play with, the interactions and synergies can just be bananas.

I think I maybe could take out some creatures and add another set of removal, probably at least a few Ruinous Path since I don't really deal with Planeswalkers well as constructed.

I can't decide if I like the Colossus or Plague Belcher more but I would eventually like to go with one over the other.