TheForum

I both like/hate this list. I'm glad you put in Aurelia, I think she is going to do some work for you. There is just so much I am going to hate playing against.

My one big question is Rakdos the Defiler over Rakdos, Lord of Riots. I know his ability won't trigger the turn you cheat in Defiler but it will later and it seems the draw back is steep for you. I feel like the making your big stuff cheaper after you cheat in Lord of Riots could make a big turn into a huge one depending on your available mana. I know you never want to commit too much to the board so that could be a reason, but it seems like that would still make Defiler worse than LoR. With less stuff on the board it is more likely you sac Kaalia or an awesome Angel/Dragon you'd rather not sacrifice. I dunno maybe run both if you still want the sac trigger for opponents...?

Looks like it's getting real gentleman.

-Bill

A few questions that I would like your opinions on if you guys don't mind helping me out:

- Do I take out Caged Sun? I like it mostly for the mana ability but could I run something better with that slot in the 99?

- Would any of you run Diabolic Revelation over Demonic Collusion/Insidious Dreams?

- Should Propaganda be in the deck?

- Cards I have heavily considered an want to know if you guys think they should make the 99?
- Rite of Replication, Phyrexian Metamorph, Harvester of Souls, Mindslicer (Not heavily but one is now available to me), Mind Grind, Bloodcrazed Paladin, Gonti, Lord of Luxury.

Opinions on other things are welcome as well.

Thanks in advance.

- Bill

Divinity of Pride
Rhox Faithmender
Alhamarret's Archive

-Mike

Really like Atayla and Dissipation Field. Aetherspouts is hilarious and can just set someone back multiple turns, seems almost mean in Commander, so yeah its going in.

A couple more through some research

Atalya, Samite Master - Mana Sink that could get out of hand especially if you have open white mana while biding your time. Could also be gross with Sanguine Bond and Defiant Bloodlord

Dissipation Field - Yeah you have to take the damage but you gain a lot of life so that shouldn't be a big deal. It returns any permanent and it doesn't have to be combat damage. Could be really annoying especially for people who can't avoid doing damage to you if it is something like Guttersnipe that does the damage to all opponents. Plus if you return creatures then they will trigger your Soul Warden effects when they get recast.

Righteous Confluence - Can kill three enchantments, or 2 and gain some life or make 3 Knight tokens for your Soul Wardens

Faith's Reward - Could be a dirty play if you are slow playing and someone wipes your board while you have Blood Artist/Soul Wardens on the field.

Riot Control - prevents ALL damage to you not just combat damage while also gaining you life for the creatures on the board you don't control.

Benevolent Offering - You get 3 chump blockers and hypothetically gain a bunch of life. Also could lead to some fun/interesting politics decisions.

Aetherspouts - Wrecks someone who goes wide at you.

Sangromancer - Gains you life when opponents creatures die and the off chance they discard and is a decent bodied flyer

Just some more ideas for you

-Bill

Absorb is a counter spell that gains life as well.

Syndic of Tithes and Tithe Drinker are cheap extort creatures.

Blighted Steppe is a good cheap land for lifegain.

Perhaps Cup of Life?

These are top of the head suggestions also.

-Mike

Looks annoying... Glad it is budget so there is no Archangel of Thune.

Some card suggestions-
Soul's Attendant and Suture Priest - More Soul Warden effects.

Mastery of the Unseen - can drop in blockers and when they flip you gain life.

Story Circle - protection from the color of your choice.

Triskaidekaphobia (not sure I spelled that right) - more pinging an gives you a sort of faster clock if you can get people to 13. Though it could make you a target.

-Bill

I didn't realize Magmasaur was a dinosaur. It seemed like it should be, but the printings I had seen said "Elemental" or "Elemental Lizard". I'm glad they corrected it with the oracle.

Prowling Serpopard is definitely a good include. We should get him that.

I had considered Trostani also, but he might not have a lot of tokens to target. Verdant Sun's Avatar is basically the dinosaur version, and with Sultai Flayer, Tamanoa, Brightflame, and Shamanic Revelation he should have no problems gaining plenty of life.

Pyrohemia is an important piece, but Sam could play around it with his mass enchantment removal. Either play the removal before Pyrohemia, or defer playing it until there are enough enchantment threats to tip the scales. Pyrohemia can be a big catalyst for the deck, but it's not really part of the win condition. He could afford to lose it once it's served its purpose.

In terms of enchantments that grant haste like Fires of Yavimaya, I don't think it's worth breaking from the enchantment hate. 1 - Gishath, the most important creature to haste already has it. 2 - Regisaur Alpha gives dinos, his biggest creatures, haste. 3 - Gishath's ability can't make use of haste creatures since they enter the battlefield after combat. ETB effects and things he can ping to enrage on his second main (or after) are better with Gishath.

I didn't remember seeing the Krosan Verge, but I'll look.

I really liked this deck. Really all of the precon decks from Commander 17 look pretty sweet. This one does big dumb stuff which makes me worried about how little interaction I have. Hopefully other people will be able to handle your huge stuff, or I'll bee chump blocking forever.

So many good Dragons, I'm not sure where you have room for the sideboard cards but I'm sure you'll find a way. Thunder break would be ridiculous in this deck. I also love Balefire Dragon so they have to find a way in eventually.

As a general rule, you should have to choose Dragons for all of your siege cards.

You have your commander listed in your decklist so you are missing something in the list.

Also, two suggestions:

1. Sarkhan, The Mad. I know he doesn't get loyalty counters ever but I can't imagine Planeswalkers are generally long for the world in commander games. He does a couple of things that are cool though. His -2 can synergize with the Kamigawa dragons, right now just Ryusei, you sack that dragon do its dying triggered ability and replace it with a 5/5 dragon that can trigger Dragon Tempest and such could be brutal. Or if you have enough Dragons on the board it's 5 mana to kill somebody. And in a pinch you draw 1, maybe 2 cards. I also happen to know someone who has one that they are willing to trade. *cough me cough*

2. Another stupid card in this deck would be Sunbird's Invocation. It'd be basically another Ur Dragon ability that would let you 2 for the price of one your dragons which would get out of hand fast. (I also have one that I am less inclined to part with but you can take it for a spin when we play on the 25th if you'd like).

-Bill

Very excited to try commander BTW.

YP is an easy replace in my view. Aggressive and in this build it needs and immediate answer.

Bonfire of the Damned might be better than Devil's Play, but without any way to arrange the top of your deck it may not be. Worth a look though.

Mizzium Mortars may also be better than Devil's Play to clear out blockers for your Delvers / YP Elementals.

Shock is a good inclusion over the other cards. Maybe even worth using it over Turn//Burn.

I'm not sure Jace is necessary. I imagine you mostly just use him to draw cards so he's worth 2-4 cards for you so it's up to you if you wanna keep that.

I am curious if you've considered going back to Scars block over forward to RTR? I'm not sure if it is better for you since you don't (and probably won't for a long time, possibly ever) have Snapcasters for this deck. However, you do have access to Ponder, Vapor Snag, Gitaxian Probe and Mana Leak or could even splash Dismember. I'm not sure it'd be better for you but in my research of Delver decks in both modern and different standards, they are pretty heavily including cantrips and going backwards seems to have more cantrips. Thought Scour is a big inclusion in Standard UR delver decks back in the day and is already available to you. Though, I do really like the Young Pyromancer inclusion and want to see how that plays out.

-Bill

YP can just take over a game if left unchecked, can't say the same for the goblin. Even if you are in a situation where you can't be aggressive with the 1/1's, they still clog up the ground as chump blockers.

I'd leave Jace but lose the other two for shock. Actually, since you are in Innistrad, it should be Pillar of Flame instead of shock, no reason not to.

E

Having access to M14 opens a few doors... Goblin Electromancer has been good to me, but is Young Pyromancer a strict upgrade? Should I cut Jace, Talrand's invocation, and a land for three copies of shock? -Boyf

I really like this deck. It was what I was most excited about from Shadows block but I've moved on and have other ideas for new decks I'd rather make so I'm glad someone is playing this deck.

Asylum Visitor is great. I definitely think you should include it. In my plan for the deck I favored Bloodhall Priest over Incorrigible Youths but not by much. If you find the haste more useful than the occasional extra damage then make the switch. The extra toughness on the Priest could be big however since a lot of burn does 3 damage but Drana can make that moot.

I Hope this deck does well for you. I really like it.

-Bill

P.S. - The work they did for Innistrad is incredible. Furyblade Vampire is the Markov Blademaster from the original block and I love that she is wielding the Trepanation Blade. Also, just noticed that the Foreboding Ruins is a destroyed Clifftop Retreat.

Ornithopter is M11 along with the Overseer. Also, Buried Ruin may be a decent inclusion as well. You don't need all of your lands producing white and the ability to return an important artifact for a certain match up could be great.

-Bill

I actually think that Ornithopter is somehow not in this standard, but yeah, Steel Overseer seems pretty good... Wife? What wife? I'm married to my craft. And my craft is buying Magic cards. -Boyf

It's a shame Steel Overseer is so expensive. You should prolly start hiding some money from your wife to buy them cause they would be great.Same with Wurmcoil Engine.

Some more reasonable options to consider if you haven't already:

Ornithopter over Memnite for the evasion.

Phyrexian Revoker is a Pithing Needle on a 2/1 body that could be useful.

Juggernaut or Darksteel Juggernaut could be decent top of curve finishers for a baller on a budget.

Solemn Simulacrum gets you land and is a golem so it would benefit from the Splicer and draws you a card when it dies. But the cost is prolly too high at 4 for a 2/2.

Generally speaking though, I like the lower curve of the sideboard version, and not being beholden to Myr synergies opens up some much better options for artifact creature from Scars block. Other than Steel Overseer there isn't much outside of block that is super great but there are plenty of in block cards that are good to choose from. Problem is going to be cost. But Tempered Steel is what makes this deck so good so budget options will still work pretty well.

-Bill

I think Sam has a mono Black Nest deck he's bringing on Sunday, so we'll be able to see how the various routes play out. Should be neat. -Boyf

Or Thopter Assembly as a high end finisher. One of those with a Tempered Steel in play, yeesh.

Also, if you end up keeping your mana dork myrs, Myr Superion is fun, but is probably too much of a build around.

Also, add four Mox Opal.

I've thought of going the same route with Nest and running more creatures like Belcher, Croc of the Crossing, and it just gets dumb with Channeler Initiate and Ammit Eternal. But yeah, oblivion ring for days.

Still, I could lose the Punisher for a set of either Belcher or Croc, drop Key and run Nest. Wouldnt be hard or expensive to test.

Now I want to make another deck Hapatra/Nest deck that just wants to flood with 1/1s and then drop a Decimator and then over run. So many fun ideas for this concept, but I dont know if any of them can exactly get competitive with our top tier decks.