dknight27

It's all good. I know it looks stupid at first, but the wheel just keeps on spinning.

It has no answer to force of will, but statistically that puts you ahead. If opponent isn't running 4 copies, and doesn't get lucky enough to have material to sack off to it, you run right over him. Even if he does kill off a piece early in your wheel, he just lost 2 cards and most likely won't have enough material or mana base to stop the second time your wheel starts on the next turn, so it becomes a race to see who starts first on the second time.

Again, not fullproof, but if you go first you are almost certainly going to win.

There are also a few tactical combos that really help putting this deck over the top.

Demonic tutor into a black lotus if you don't need it to search for a wheel piece, which spends 2 mana to get you 3, so it guarantees you enough mana to play any piece of the wheel either this cycle or after you draw 7.

Black lotus for 3 black then demonic tutor for contract from below and use the black from lotus to wheel yourself a new hand.

Well, the point of this deck is to basically never give your opponent the chance to play anything. Because of the way the artifacts work as mana sources, contract from below and timetwister basically act like "draw 7 new cards and take another turn", which gives this deck 12 consistent and cheap cards that give you extra turns. Couple that with ancestral recall and demonic tutor and you are almost guaranteed to start the "wheel" mechanic turning, which continually draws more cards and gains more mana producers so you have enough to burn for 3 each cycle and then reset the whole thing.

The math plays out like this. Each time you draw 7, you have 29/60 possible mana sources, 23 of which can be played on the same turn. So, of the 7 cards you draw, give or take 3-4 of them will be mana producers you can drop which nets you extra mana to keep the combo rolling. The other 3-4 cards statistically work out to be something that propagates the wheel (twister, contract, time walk, recall, demonic tutor) which is a 20/60 chance so you get 2/7 cards to possibly keep going, and 10/60 or 1/7 burn cards to hit for 3 damage before you wheel away your hand and replenish it.

Because of the way the deck continuously replenishes card advantage, on average 3-4 times easily per turn (for a total of either 21 or 28 cards drawn), you will hit a time walk/time warp which untaps your mana producers and draws you a card, so you can cash out all the burn you have for that turn and then continue drawing next turn. This works extremely well with bump in the night once you have milled through about half your deck.

And, possibly most devastatingly, timetwister resets your grave, so the more you mill through with draw 7 cards, the more saturated your deck is with ways to continue the combo, making the last 9ish damage hit on 1 draw cycle.

Try the draw sample hand feature a few times and see what I mean. It doesn't work 100% of the time, but a good 80% it gets an FTK.

fulminator mage would be better especially with the potential mana problem in here, but I wouldn't run it unless your meta calls for it. As its a 3 drop you probably wont be using it to actually slow down the opponent too much with only a sided option, so the only reason to run it is to counter something specific.

they are different for each color, but ya like bloodmoon, snapcaster mage etc. unfortunately competitive magic is basically about who is willing to spend more, which is very annoying, especially since everyone net decks instead of trying to build something original or adapt a deck type yourself.

Well, it won't be tier 1 as you don't have fetch lands or the expensive staples that are necessary to compete on the top level, but its not a bad deck. I would consider playing it as an intermediate player to help you work your way up to the upper levels.

Sure.

Dragon's claw would be the first option in a deck that doesn't run white, as it knocks 1 off each of their damage and gets triggered by yours too, which should give you enough time to get up and running.

spell pierce is a wonderful early game counter against burn, and against a good player having to pay 2 mana will still be a pain in the middle/late game.

spell snare works similarly, as burn cards in modern basically cost either 1 or 2, and spell snare will take care of half the threats and is fast.

No worries mate, postulating about this game is a passion of mine.

delver is a powerhouse in a deck like this. If you can locate a playset I would definitely do so. turn 1 delver puts the opponent on a 7 turn clock and forces them to expend a resource to stop a 1 drop, which is beautiful. whoever made the card was on dope, they basically forced players to make versions of this deck.


You have some beautiful sideboard potential in a deck of these colors.

mindbreak trap should be in 99.9% of decks as it stops uncounterable stuff, infinite combos, and can be hardcast as a counter if need be so its not a complete dead draw.

shattering spree devastates artifact decks.

blood moon doesn't hurt you at all in your current build and will completely shut down or cripple a lot of modern builds, particularly tri-color decks like esper and jund.

pyroclasm takes care of rush creature decks like goblins and elves, or you could run slagstorm which hits a little harder.

peak eruption can be a pain for the opponent, especially if you manage to drop it turn 3, and it will never be a dead draw as you get 3 damage out of it.

relic of progenitus takes care of a lot of problems like delve cards, dredge cards, and tarmygof, plus it replaces itself so again, never a dead draw.

A few more burn cards with some muscle might help in the sideboard just in case you run into things that can't be burned off by 3 damage like char or flame slash.

I see several potential problems for this deck.

The landbase is incredibly risky. Even for such a small curve, 16 lands seems light for a duel-color deck with no non-basics. You run the risk of getting only 1 mana which will stall the deck badly, or only 1 color, which will cripple the deck. This deck's tipping curve (mana production at which the deck does what it's supposed to do) is 2. It can survive on only 1, but it most likely wont be able to win games with an early stallout.

If you can afford it, I would look into the fetch lands and then run 6-7 fetch lands and 14-13 regular lands (either way 20 total), which will give you the 2 you need to operate and thin the deck out so you don't draw dead lands after you get 3.

pyromancer ascension is a good win condition for a deck that tries to win with prolonged control, but this deck isn't really trying to do that. I'll address this problem directly then come back to the pyromancer problem.

the biggest potential problem this deck faces is that it's not really 1 cohesive deck but two decks crammed together into one. You have all the elements of a rush burn deck and a stall control deck, but havn't managed to combine them properly, most likely because they directly counteract each other.

Your 2 of your 3 win conditions- thing in the ice and pyromancer ascension, are both conditional and slow, implying a stall control deck that locks everything down, eliminates threats, and then hits hard for the win. Guttersnipe, your third win con, is a midranged version of this problem as well as he is useless without a hand to dump to him and you will most likely dump your hand in the early game which poses a big problem.


The opposite problem, running out of steam/usefulness, happens with monastery swiftspear. He is arguably one of the best blitz cards out there, but your deck doesn't really support him properly to justify the little guy. Yes I know your deck is full of non-creature spells, but 8 of them are counterspells, so you cant dump them to power him up, and you will almost never cast a riftbolt until the middle game, so your turn 1 swiftspear has a decent chance of scoring only about 2-4 damage which doesn't justify his place in this deck which will have a big problem with running out of steam early and could really use either a control element or a bigger burn source that isn't conditional. On top of this, even if he is running exactly as you want him to, he takes the place of a win condition, and since youre running 12 already, you don't need to run 16.

Back to pyromancer ascension. yes I know it means super burn damage of doom and good card advantage and all that, but its useless until the lategame on average and only useful middle game if you get really lucky. That's fine if you want to use it in a longterm stall deck, but as ive mentioned before, this deck isn't that.


So, my overall advice would be to decide which direction you want to go with this deck. Keep it fast and heavy or take it long term. You can make a fusion, blue-red burn control, but it's never a rush build like you're trying for here.

Just some thoughts, trying to talk it out. Not trying to disrespect the deck or anything.

runechanter's pike is a bad fit for this deck as its conditional on having a creature and you only run 4. It will be super effective if you have the material, but its super easy to dismember the combo and it won't hit all the time anyway so I would personally go with something safer and more consistent that is almost guaranteed to give you more benefit every time. I would consider swapping it out for slagstorm which will let you deal with fast creature decks and is almost never a dead draw as it can still be used to burn away lp if opponent isn't running creatures.

I would also consider running an extra land. I know the curve in here is low, but 20 can lead to extra mulligans or stalling out at 1 land, and this deck's operational number is 2 mana. Getting ahold of some fetch lands, such as arid mesa etc, would go a long way in here as it will help solve your red/white problem as well as pull unneeded lands out of the deck for the middle and late game, but some of them are expensive. If you can get ahold of them I would consider running 6 which will speed things up for you.

Just some thoughts.

20 lands is a bit too few in this build. In general, 22 is the amount you should stick with unless you're running a combo or really small curve. This deck has an operating number, the number of lands necessary to do pretty much anything, of 3 so you need the extra 2 lands overall to make sure that on turn 3 you can drop the third land and then drop a relentless rat. In addition, you don't really need to worry about drawing dead lands in the middle and late game cause you can drop them to pack rat and pump out more tokens, making 22 lands an even more desirable number.

Just some thoughts.

I've always been skeptical about running 4 tops. I know you can bury one pretty easily with the fetch lands but you burn a turn's mana doing it, so I always prefer to stick with 3 so you still get a good shot at one early but are less likely to be bogged down with 2 in an opening hand.

Similar logic with snapcaster, except you also have to worry about it being a dead draw until you get 3-4 mana out so it doesn't help you in the pivotal early turns in legacy. So I always stick with 3 copies unless I'm running brainstorms and ponders.

I also love running mindbreak traps in the side to deal with uncounterable and combo stuff.

Just some thoughts.

I'm not sure how I feel about monastery mentor. Have you had lots of success with it? Seems to me you could get more advantage out of something like assemble the legion which isn't conditional and can't be path to exiled away.

Cryptic command is always a problem for me in modern if its not in a mono-blue deck cause it's so cost conditional that it is usually useless until the late middle and endgame. Plus, if you get it early and actually have the three blue to drop it, you stop your development to keep the mana open which hurts you more anyway. I know its a bitchin counter, but in a tri-color its too conditional and slow to be worth it in my opinion.

I have similar problems with running more than 1-2 sphinx's revelation. It's a brick in your hand until the late middle and endgame so running 3 just ups the chances that you draw it turn 1 and its useless. I know it refills everything you need refilled so its great to have when you have the mana to drop it, but your deck is vulnerable to fast creature decks and anything that gets off the ground early, so 3 revelation's probably won't help you as much as you want. I would run something faster that will help keep you in the game long enough to drop the 1-2 (I would advise 1) copies you want to keep, such as remand, which stalls like nobody's business in modern.

I know you're relying on the fetch lands to thin out the 26 lands you have here, but even with 7 of them 26 seems too high. I know you want fast development and the ability to drop lands turns 1-3, but with 26 its almost inevitable that you will stall out hard middle and late game by drawing useless lands. I would consider taking it down to 23 and trimming celestial colonnade down to only 1 as it hurts you badly early game if you need the extra mana to get something done and draw into a colonnade and can't use it that turn. 4 copies ups the chances of that happening drastically.

You might also consider running serum visions just for the tactical advantage and something to do turn 1 that will help move things along.

Just some thoughts, not trying to criticize.

Just a general question, as I'll be checking out most of your decks (I'm bored at work). Are these for competitive play? Just curious.

I would consider several changes to this deck. Drop sword of feast and famine for umizawa's jitte, which is arguably the best equipment in the game (possibly batterskull or cranial plating).

Invisible stalker is made for this deck. to get him off they have to sideboard in something or drop a nuke, either way you should have a counter ready and not worry about it.

4 jace is largely unnecessary as this deck's win con in damage vie an equipped creature. running 1 would be fine as an alt win condition and control element and won't clog your hand.

Your counter base needs a bit of work. 4 copies of counterspell are absolutely essential in this build as you need them to protect your assets and they are cheap enough to rely on in the middle game. I would also consider replacing dissipate for spell snare or negate as 3 mana is a decent chunk to worry about in a legacy control deck and all those 3 drop counterspells leave you helpless in the opening and clogged in the middle game. You basically wont be able to develop early-middle game because you will have to keep 3 mana open for the counters.

It would of course be a good idea to run 4 force of will, but I understand those are expensive.

25 is a bit high for a land base, even with the fetch lands pulling out the non-essentials. I would drop it to 1 celestial colonnade and then run a total of 23 lands which is more than enough to keep you active early game and with the fetch lands keep your hand full in the middle and late game.

This deck would also be helped a lot by 4 copies of ponder as it has nothing to do turn 1 and ponder is a tactical card that makes decks SOOOO much more efficient. It's almost never a dead draw and can really help accelerate a deck in the early game, which is exactly what a control deck like this needs.


If you wanted to, you could even consider making this a tri-colored deck with black and then add discard stuff instead of so many counters to make sure you have a turn 1 discard card that ruins their gameplan.

Just some thoughts.

I'm not sure how I feel about sulfuric vortex given how few lands you have and how many of them will be pulled out of the deck by search lands. I see a real potential to stall out at 2 mana for a few turns, which makes me hesitant with the 3 drops that don't do damage right away but give the opponent time to deal with it and you. Flame rift accomplishes basically the same thing for only 2 mana and they can't abrupt decay it away. I also prefer flame rift over mainboarded price of progress, but that's just me.


I have the same problem, low land count, with running 4 fireblasts. I always run 3 so there is a smaller chance of having 2 in hand which will sink you.

Other than that this looks like a solid deck to me. eidolon just sinks every deck in legacy and swiftspear is one of the best burn deck support cards ive seen in years. Solid build.

Ya that's an absolutely sick combo. 2 mana to fix a problem.

I'm not a fan of goblin electromancer in here. 16 of your 28 instants/sorceries don't benefit from it and it doesn't give you any other advantage. Guttersnipe, snapcastermage, gelectrode, and talrand come to mind.

Just some thoughts.

I absolutely love builds like this.

treetop village might not be the best choice in here as it has the potential to stall you out turn 2 or 3 which will be lethal to this deck's plan. You basically need a 1 drop, 2 drop, then 2 or 3 drop on each of the first 3 turns, so putting in a comes into play tapped land has the potential to hurt that plan.

In addition, this is exactly the type of build you want to use search lands with as it has a very low curve and can realistically function on only 2 lands and is at full steam with 4. I would consider trying to run 4 verdant catacombs, 4 windswept heaths, and 4 wooded foothills with 10 forests.

I know that sounds like a lot of life being lost, but the life total of this deck is basically irrelevant as you are trying to race your opponent for control of the field via agro. With this many search lands, by the middle game, your deck will only be drawing a land 1/4 turns and it will be much more consistent and you will be winning a lot more games.

Dungrove elder is a powerhouse in this deck. max him out to 4 and say thank you that some fool made him into a card.

I would also ponder (joke) putting in 2 more 1 drops to bring the turn 1 monster plays to 10 total, basically insuring that you will have a creature out turn 1. Savannah lions is a good choice for this build. That way you will be able to swing for 2 damage on turn 2 almost every game and if necessary take out opponent's turn 2 blocker then leave the field open for your babies.

Just some thoughts.

You seem to have a bit of a land problem here. I see lots of green and no way to get it on the field