dknight27

Just a concept I'm kicking around. It's so damn hard to run a creature based deck in modern as there are so many good removal options that shut them down that don't eat tempo. So, at least in my mind, one way to get around this is to run creatures that benefit you even if they run into normal removal.

Now, not much helps you against path to exile, but the rest of the staple removal options: terminate, fatal push, lightning bolt, damnation, wrath, etc, all lose effectiveness against a build that either doesn't respond to normal removal or recovers so quickly that it doesn't matter. Thus, a teamsters (union) theme.

Emissary grabs a land, so accelerates and retains advantage
finks is the anti-removal king
rogue refiner replaces itself when it hits
thragtusk replaces itself at death
vizier swarms like crazy in this build

All the other critters are either hexproof or shut down opponent's tempo

Some 1 drop tactical control to speed things up and the regular splash of path to exile.


The whole thing is simple, and most likely can't keep up with the heavy hitters in modern, but its a fun idea

Hi friend. I know this is an old one, but I see a couple tweaks that could help this build out.

The curve is a little skewed toward 2 drops, meaning this deck will have a rough time reacting in the early few turns cause you will be choked up turn 1 and 3. Also, I don't see any tactics cards, like brainstorm, which not only fits perfectly in this build, but with fetch lands basically guarantees that this deck will hit hard and fast at every stage. Its not a bad fit to isochron if need be, and helps even out the curve so you have something to do turn 1 and 3 in reaction or proactively.

21 lands with 6 fetches is good for this build, but honestly I would think about running a couple man lands as alt win conditions that wont be dead draws after turn 4.

Running 15 creatures in this build seems a bit high to me too. A burn spell on isochron is win condition enough to go a bit sparse on the field win conditions, especially since isochron is a dead draw without an instant in hand. Ergo, cut a few critters, up the instant count, isochron becomes more effective and the deck gains more control.

A couple of the creature choices don't make much sense to me either. Hypersonic dragon doesn't seem to give you any advantage in here, and is pretty expensive. Soulfire gransmaster is expensive to run at high capacity (need 4 extra mana to get its great effects), and realistically the lifelink won't give you that much advantage compared to a cheaper control outlet (electralize for example).

Remand would also go a long way as it triggers all your guys, buys you tempo, and retains card advantage. Play it turn 2, you gain advantage. Play it at any other time, you retain advantage. Put it on isochron and watch opponent cry as you eat his tempo and refill your hand.


Just my thoughts. Like I said, I know this one is a bit old, but I love the build idea and I want to see more of them.

fair enough. keep up the work, its super helpful for new players, helps you work things out as well, and in general helps the mtg community

35 cents on trollandtoad preordered for dominaria, 50 cents for ixalan, so it should be affordable (I presume).

I'm surprised to see no 1 drop tactical cards in here. Opt goes for 35 cents nowadays

I love the idea going on here. Honestly, my favorite type of build in magic. Control the field and tempo, establish a win condition, resolve the win condition. Its pure, fun, and there are tons of color combos that can do it.

I do see some potential problems in this build, nothing major.

The main problem I see is that there is an imbalance between control cards vs win conditions. lingering souls, luminarch ascension, and myth realized are pure win conditions, meaning they don't really help you gain control until they are firmly established with field position intact. Gearhulk, Gideon, and celestial are combo win conditions that either accelerate or act as control mechanics too. Which means you have 13 win conditions in here (not counting the flashbacked souls), so the math is on you drawing 1 in the opening which should be a dead card that hurts both your development and ability to respond to control mechanics. This is also compounded because you have some good tactical outlet here (opt, spreading seas, azcanta), all of which rotates through cards at a pretty quick rate, cutting down on the slots you actually need to keep available for win conditions.

I'm also seeing the potential for a couple counter swap outs to hit harder and faster on the control end. Remand and Negate should be considered, as remand buys you time and adds tactical control to keep moving through the deck and negate will put a hard stop to everything but creatures (which you have 9 removal outlets to stop). I would consider swapping out spreading seas for remand as its a turn 2 commitment to drop seas and rely on opponent being mana-screwed, whereas remand is reactive and is basically guaranteed to buy you tempo turn 2 and 3.

Fortunately, these two problems fix each other. Drop out a couple win conditions for control elements and you have a quick and sleek control machine.

I suggest losing lingering souls altogether in here. I know it combos wonderfully with supreme verdict, can act as a blocker or a win condition, and gives you 2 waves to tactically get done what you need to get done, but I don't think it fits this build. Souls hits max effect in decks that spam it to the grave like gifts, and you basically don't ever want to drop it turn 3 on games when you're going second, and rarely want to drop it turn 3 when you're on the play as you need to be able to react to opponent having 3 open lands.

I think the gearhulk, 2 colonnades, 4 myth realized, and 2 gideons is more than enough to get the job done in a timely manner. That's 9/60 win conditions with a healthy dose of tactical cards to move through the deck, and 5 of the 9 win conditions double as control elements or acceleration. That's pure synergy right there. Personally, I'm ok with running 3 gearhulks and a couple man lands in a control deck as basically the only win conditions as long as there are good tactical outlets, but that's me. I accept that most people aren't willing to keep it that low. That should give you the room to swap in more counters to keep control until you field your win condition.

Just my thoughts, not trying to tear this build down or anything like that. As I mentioned above, this stuff is my favorite, and I think you are onto something good here. I hadn't considered myth as a potential powerhouse win condition yet.

If you think im wrong about this, by all means tell me. I know im advocating for a card that costs a quarter

I'll definitely think about the storage matrix, oath options. I tossed around some of those ideas, and ill revisit them for sure.

As for emissary, I know its not a popular opinion, but I think it is one of the best "non good" cards in modern, as its interactions with popular decktypes work out very very well. If you're playing against burn, its a turn 2 stall tactic that accelerates when opponent is forced to waste material on it. If you're against control, its a turn 2 clock that accelerates when opponent wastes material on it. Aggro, same deal. Only real problem it has is against combo decks, as most don't run critterrage to murder you, but at least it is a turn 2 clock.

I like this over sakura basically because sakura is useless beyond his chumpblock capacity and the intentional land fetch. a 1/1 isn't a clock, can't hold down against early critters, and it an absolute dead draw out of the middlegame. Emissary is a shitty clock, but still a clock, has the potential to hold down against 2/2's and 3/2's (goblin guide, kitchen finks, etc), and is far less of a dead draw. Yes, its land fetch is conditional, but im not running it specifically for land fetch in here. 22 lands, 4 tactical searches, 4 caryatids means lands shouldn't be a problem in a 3 color deck with 8 fetch lands. Instead, im running it as a turn 2 blocker and/or clock starter that forces opponent to accelerate you and lose material in the process.

Just my thoughts. I've had great success utilizing this idea

I sincerely love this build, and the generations of deck just like it that are now possible that Jace has been unleashed. Nice work.

I really like the builds just like that that are now possible in modern thanks to the Jace-rush. 4 drop control component that doubles as a win condition, a control deck's dream.
I'm not sure 24 lands with no man lands or other mechanic lands is the way to go though, especially since you are basically guaranteed to get a turn 1 discard or tactical outlet (serum visions). I would advise dropping the land count to 23 or 22 and swapping in 2 man lands, creeping tar pit, as alternate win conditions that double as land drops early to get you to the land curve you want. I would also like to see 3 copies or the full set of search for azcanta, as it generates crazy advantage in builds like this and even though its legendary you almost never run into a problem with redundancies as it transforms so you can run the second copy when you draw it, and when you activate the transformed copy the math is on you preventing yourself from ever drawing the other copies.
Just my thoughts

This and burn are pretty much my least favorite decktype. I considered calling it meat grinder

Howdy friend. I like the framework you have going here. Quick question before I give any more feedback. What's the budget on this?

Yep, I tend to agree. He punishes control builds like no other

Agreed, ghost quarter and field of ruin got some consideration in here, but I like both options better in the side as 4 horizon canopies ramps the card advantage into another realm in this build. Playtesting might prove me wrong, but for now I prefer the certain advantage I get with canopy over the conditional advantage of ghost quarter in the main, especially when game 2 they will side in if opponent needs his colonnade as a win condition, etc.

I've run the excavator in other similar builds, and I definitely see his value, but I have a hard time keeping him on the field. He dies to the rule of 3, and I don't want to block off something smaller with him and get him magma jetted (etc), so I've not had too much success with him. He would be a good sub in to help gifts manufacture the combo, so maybe with time I will swing that way, but right now I'm counting on 3 crucibles to be enough to make this deck do what it needs to do with the recycled land mechanic being an addition, not an essential aspect. Who knows though.

As always, thanks for the feedback

Updated version of the deck posted

http://www.mtgvault.com/dknight27/decks/modern-n2o-version-2/

I positively love abrade for exactly the same reason. You basically get 16 sideboard spots. And ya, smash to smithereens is pretty perfect for the theme that's going on here. I'm currently working on the sideboard, and the options look pretty marvelous

Looks pretty solid from an initial look. I love this type of mechanic, especially with the support that's been printed for it in recent sets. Search for Azcanta is perfect, it does whatever you need it to do. Bedlam reveler is right at home in this deck, as is sin prodder.

I do however see a couple things that could be a problem.

Firstly, you are sort of choked with 2 drop cards which is a problem for a deck that needs a turn 1 play and needs to be able to function on only 2 lands for a couple turns. This can not only be easily fixed but also lets you run the wonderful 1 drop blue tactical cards like opt, serum visions, sleight of hand, etc. I would go with opt as the instant speed gives you wonderful options with pyromancer and alchemist. Plus, 4 opts and 4 faithless looting basically guarantees you a turn 1 tactical play which puts this deck over the top. I would consider cutting down izzet charm as it gives you some advantage in the opening with its counter ability, but once both players are developed the counter ability is shut down, the 2 damage to a creature isn't as good as other options, and the draw and discard is already covered by faithless looting and its magnificent flashback abil. So, my thought is swap em out for 4 opts.

I'm not a fan of 4 bedlam revelers in here, especially with only 20 lands and 4 search lands. I know they are gunna hopefully get cast for RR, but since you need 6 instants and sorceries in the grave to do it, it won't be playable until the middle game, meaning you don't want it in the opening hand. Cutting it to 3 will cut down on it choking up the opening hand and make room for another instant/sorcery that will help you cast the other 3. Plus, you never want 2 copies in your hand because playing 1 means losing the other, unlike an instant or sorcery you can cast before reveler to maximize your card advantage.

I like the deep-fiend/kozilek's return combo, both as a card advantage generator and as a nuke with tempo (flash wins all day long). However, with only 2 copies of each I'm not seeing it being that relevant of a combo, and even if it connects you can't make it land without paying a chunk of mana (which this deck doesn't have) or by sacking a creature (which this deck can't really afford (token's don't have cmc to sac off)). Plus, kozilek's return nukes most of the advantage you generate with a lot of your cards (shuts down pyromancer and your token brigade, kills sin prodder). My advice would be to switch them out for 2 torrential gearhulks and 2 sweltering suns. Gearhulk is about the best win condition for control in the history of modern, and sweltering suns is an excellent fast nuke in here that you can cycle off if you don't need it. They both operate independently and work with the overall theme you've got going on. Plus, just picture torrential gearhulk flashing in to snap back electrolyze. 5/6 hits the field, possibly to block something, plus it can attack at end of turn, 2 damage to snipe something or drain opponent for 2, and draw a card. All for 1 gearhulk. I'm in love.

Just my thoughts. The skeleton you've got going here is exactly what you want from a deck like this. I just see a couple possible improvements. Nice job.

Good points all around. I've most definitely been thinking over the bedlam reveler's as heavy hitters and for the delicious hand refill. Swiftspear has also been on my mind, I'll keep working on it.

Here was my thought process with sculler:

turn 1- discard (8 options)
turn 2- sculler (discard) or alchemist (damage machine) or confidant (fuel machine)
turn 3 on- repeat

the double discard option turn 1 and 2 just seemed too tempting as it reverses the "going first card disadvantage" , completely dismantles whatever opponent is doing, and gives you a couple turns with a 2/2 to grind out some damage before opponent can develop a countermeasure. It's quite possible its a little overkill, especially with removal being no problem, but I see this deck having a little trouble against anything that says no, and bombarding opponent's hand early and starting a damage clock should go a long way to solving those problems.



In terms of the sideboard, absolutely the artifact hate is gunna have to be in super saturation. My plan was to vary up the cmc a little so they can't kill em all with 1 chalice

thanks for the feedback guys, this is still a work in progress, but I'm convinced there is at least SOMETHING of value in the theory behind it. I'm also looking heavily at boros charm as a substitute for a little of the removal, as there's so much

Some interesting ideas here. Personally I prefer sculler over maggot because it's a 2/2, so its a turn 2 drop that starts the damage clock running. Ya, unfortunately its an artifact too, so its super easy to remove, but if nothing else it will probably buy me a few turns of tempo as well as force opponent to waste removal on it.

I'm considering the land disbursement. I'd like to run at least 1 copy of each shock land so they are fetchable, but other than that I'm seeing the merit of the fast lands. I'm hesitant to switch to all basics, even if it nukes the chances of land disruption because with so few and the NECESSITY of a turn 1 drop, but maximizing the fast lands over shock sounds good

Thanks for the feedback, I know this is a sticky sort of deck

Yep, that's the idea. This deck looks to maximize the underlying mechanic of all magic, and most games honestly, that if you can mobilize a win condition faster than opponent, your own vulnerability isn't an issue, thus, the most important facet is a combination of speed (tempo) and fuel (card advantage). This deck seeks to maximize both while denying them to opponent, and thus doesn't care that it bleeds life like crazy