Hi there Burkek, Nice looking deck. I am just going to throw out some ideals for you to consider. Some of it may or may not be useful. Personally I worry that you have just a few too little creatures maybe fit 2-4 either Plague Myr or Necropede. If they can keep you from getting creatures down, your spells are mostly worthless. Also I enjoy having a few Contagion Clasp so you can keep proliferating for the win if you can't get creatures through. It also works well with something like Oran-Rief, the Vastwood and putting a -1/-1 counter on creatures gives you a little more removal. I agree that Livewire lash can be great. Also the swords give a good way to boost and protect your creature. Other equipment to consider are adventuring gear (works great with fetchlands) or Swiftfoot Boots(or lightning greaves) Apostle's Blessing can also be a game winner in the right situation. Autumn's Veil and Nature's Claim are good sideboard options. I also question if splashing red is the right choice over slashing blue or black which have lots of great cards for infect. I know the following cards may not fit with your format but the are great for infect. Invigorate is awesome. Also Rancor, Berserk, Bounty of the Hunt and Might of Old Krosa. Pendelhaven is a fun land. Good luck with the deck!
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Hi there! I actually have a lot of experience building around rule 420.5 n and breaking persist. Most people wouldn't recognize what this deck was by that name. I like this build and a few of your choices but I think you could tweak it to be better. My deck started looking similar to this several years ago but then Melira, Sylvok Outcast came out and was much better than Juniper Order Ranger. Loosing Juniper also allows you to drop the white splash and focus more. I would still sideboard Juniper for a rainy day and there is always birds, Fauna Shaman, or green sun zenith if you need to sneak him out. My version can be very quick and has won on turn 4 on many occasions and turn 3 on some. Ex. Turn 1 land and bird Turn 2 land and blasting station Turn 3 land and Melira and Safehold Elite. Sac Safehold 20 times to Blasting station and win. Take a look at my deck and let me know what you think. Probably some cards in there you hadn't considered before. Melira Persist+Sac http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=189723 Good luck with the deck!
Nice deck. I tried to make something like this but decided to run blue and red. I am pretty happy with the way its shaping up. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=191771 Take a look, you may get some new ideals for your deck. Personally I feel like you are either running too few creatures or too few burn spells. Since Chandra's Spitfire only triggers when you deal non combat damage I feel like you will have a lot of cards that don't trigger it to pump. Good luck with the deck!
I actually can't take credit for this one and have not personally ran it. I came across it while looking at various legacy decks and was surprised at how cheap it was compared to most legacy decks. This build came in 3rd I think in a tourny about a year ago. I wish I could remember the creator to give him credit. Either way it looks very solid and judging by how well the creator did with it, it should be a pretty good deck. It might not be the absolute most powerful build of dredge but it is the cheapest that I have seen that is still competitive. I have planned on building it for a while but haven't gotten to it. If you build it I would love to here what you think about it or if you found any improvements.
I love mill and have experiemented with many different builds. This is a nice looking mill deck. I have a few suggestions that you might consider. I would loose Szadeck and Geth. Since it looks like you are going somewhat aggro mill I would consider 1 or 2 Trepanation Blade or Sword of Body and Mind. Also Dimir can only transmute for 2 mana cost so for Glimpse or Snapcaster.... not all that bad though. Still might think of Invisible stalker instead. Also check out Circu, Dimir Lobotomist, Guiltfeeder, Oona, and Queen of the Fae for creatures that have synergy with mill. I don't feel like Jace's Erasure is being fully untilized so I would consider getting rid of it. Maybe some type of removal like Go for the throat or Eradicate? Good luck with the deck. Take a look at my B/U mill deck if you like. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=199824
This is a mill deck not a burn deck. Still looks like you'ved one a pretty good job with it considering its budget. I would get rid of Spiny Starfish and Chancellor of the spires for some more archive traps. If you want another creature look at Fog bank. Oboro, Palace in the Clouds is great with Hedron crabs and so is fetchlands. Ghost quarter also works well with the crab and can trick your opponent into letting you get a free archive trap. Also look at Vision Charm, its instant, can temporarily get rid of artifacts and can cause land disruption. Also consider Echoing Truth. Good luck with the deck. Here is my blue/black mill if you are interested. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=199824
This is a nice Illusion deck, although I am a bit confused as to why Oboro, Palace in the Clouds is in there. Also it seems like you want to get 4 Pantasmal Image in this deck even if you have to decrease the amount of Krovikan Mist, Chronozoa or Phantom Warrior. Phantasmal image is your best way to deal with any big threats that they manage to get onto the battlefield and as Jayden said above if you copy a lord he becomes self protecting. Have you ever considered Stifle or Trickbind to prevent the sacrifice effect from triggering? Take a look at my Illusion deck if you don't mind and tell me what you think. Teferi's Illusion http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=209755
This is a nice looking Illusion deck. Mine isn't all that different but I have tried out a few different things. Personally I like using Stifle or Trickbind to save my creatures from being sacrificed as a result of being targeted. They are also great cards against many other types of threats. I have also experimented with giving illusions flash. Also Vapor snag is better than unsummon for your sideboard. Good luck with your deck. Take a look at my deck if you like. Comments are appreciated. Teferi's Illusion http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=209755
I pretty much agree with everything you and ESPRcon have said. The intent of this deck was my girlfriend wanted the fastest burn deck that would be capable of winning on turn 3 to surprise a few of my friends running fast combo decks. I know this is not necessarily the best or most consistent burn, just the fastest. The only thing I could really come up with was using quest. Turn 1 Quest Turn 2 lightning bolt or similar x 2 Turn 3 two more burn spells for a max of 3 mana, Then sac Quest and sac two lands to Fireblast for an additional 8 for the win. If anyone know of another way to accomplish that I would love to here it. So if I need to use Quest, then Chain of Plasma becomes good. Once Quest is down I would love my opponent to bounce back Chain as many times as they like until I get 4 counters on quest. However to make a better burn deck I agree with what you guys said. This is actually that deck in its current evolved form and it has been a way better deck in almost every situation except pure reckless speed, but its still very fast. Please check it out some time if you wouldn't mind. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=210879 Thanks again for the comments!
Thanks for the comment, please see Raggedjoe's comment below.
Hi there Isbiten, Thanks for commenting on one of my decks so I will repay the favor. This is a great looking deck. Its similar to my current Burn Deck Wins variant, here is a link if you want to take a look. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=210879 I know you aren't a fan of fetch lands but if you do decide to run Grim Lavamancer, they help power him greatly and is a great source of reoccurring damage. As is Sulfuric Vortex. I have not tried Figure of Destiny but it is a great card in my kithkin deck and may be worth a try. Hellspark works pretty well but considering he sacs himself so quickly I personally would rather run a instant in his place. I am currently testing Countryside Crusher which is great for filtering the deck and can help fuel Grim Lavamancer or even take advantage of a fetch land to get a +1/+1. I like the card a lot but I'm not sure he belongs in competitive play.
Thanks for the comment. I made a few changes to the build. I took out Needle Drop and Sensei's Divining Top. Needle Drop is a great card only when used with Quest for the Pure Flame but it can be a dead card so ultimately it wasn't consistent enough. Sensei's Divining Top is a powerful card and there were some games that it helped me win. Other times however I found myself wasting mana on top when I should have done something else. So again not quite consistent enough for burn. Keldon Marauders are wonderful and very efficient. They are one of the few creatures that can go into burn and feel at home. They are also great for quest for the pure flame. Could you point me to where you read the statistics about deck thinning? It may be all in my head but it really does seem to work at speeding decks up. Although there have been games where I may not have lost if I had that extra 1 or 2 life. I will have to try it out both ways and see how it runs. This deck actually evolved into another deck with RDWs elements at the moment but I still have all the cards so it can easily be put back together. Check it out if you like. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=210879
Thank for the comment. I pretty much completely agree with you. I put Pendrell in this deck just for fun. The ideal was play it the turn you play Knight Exemplar and then i'm mostly immune or better yet get 2 exemplars down. I don't really have that card though and am not going to spend the money on it anytime soon. I made a new Knight deck build I would like for you to check out, I think you will like it much better. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=245744
Love this hybrid deck ideal. I may have to try this out, I have an incomplete painter/stone deck and i recently got a graveborn deck so I am close to having the cards i need. If i come up with any tweaks I'll let you know. Nice build!
I understand what you are saying and this card is super confusing still. However I am pretty certain that it must specify the end step and can not just say the end step. Here is a judge ruling from the Gatherer that says "If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)." Also here is a large discussion on the MTGS forums that goes into it more. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=335306 Just before Sundial came out wizards of the coast went through and changed the orcale text on a lot of cards and specified the end step on some and the NEXT end step on many cards. I am pretty sure this is to show which cards trigger every end step and which only trigger during 1 specific end step. Otherwise I would have expected them to change them all to the same wording.
Sundial is such a confusing card. I got excited and made a elemental deck similar to this until I found out i was playing it wrong. I probably wont explain this exactly right but it is what i understand to be correct. The reason it will not work to save your creatures is because those creatures say "At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice (creature name)". Notice it says the end step and not the NEXT end step. This means that the card will trigger during any end step. You will be able to save it on your turn but will have to sacrifice it during the end step of your opponents turn and you can only activate sundial during your turn. So basically it should work with any card that says NEXT end step because those will only trigger during that specific end step. which you will prevent from happening. Likewise if it specifically names which end step it will trigger you may be able to prevent that particular end step. This applies to cards like Final Fortune and last chance. Things get more confusing when you look at unearth. I believe that it does work to keep unearth creatures alive, BUT not if the card also has a sacrifice trigger printed on it like Hellspark Elemental does. Similarly even though mimic vat does work with sundial to keep permanent copies in play you could not use that to mimic vat ball lightning because that card's sacrifice ability will trigger anyway. Angel's Trumpet = Not 100% certain but I believe it works because it only triggers during your end step Mimic Vat = Works as long as the creature doesn't sac its self for another reason other than vat Spark Elemental = Doesn't work, you will sac it during your opponents turn. Hell's Thunder = Doesn't work, you will sac it during your opponents turn. Hellspark Elemental = Doesn't work, you sac it during your opponents turn. (Not 100% about unearth) Ball Lightning = Doesn't work, you will sac it during your opponents turn. Final Fortune = Works, you can prevent the specified end step from happening and will not loose. Elemental Appeal = Works, the elemental token has trample and haste. Elemental appeal creates a delayed trigger to exile the token but you can clear that by preventing your end step. Stone Idol Trap = Works, the construct token has trample. You can prevent stone idols delayed trigger. Last Chance = Works, you can prevent the specified end step from happening and will not loose. Just to clarify if it says at the end of turn you can not prevent that with sundial because end of turn abilities happen during the clean up step when your turn is finished. You can not prevent your clean up step even if you prevent your end step. So no luck keeping a 14/1 kicked Elemental Appeal around but he will still stay as a 7/1. Hope that helps you and good luck with the deck. If you figure out any amazing builds please share it with me!
I have always loved kithkins, so I always try to give advice on kithkin decks. If you want to focus on kithkin tokens then consider Cloudgoat Ranger. Angelic Destiny is now better than Armored Ascension. I see no reason not to run 4 Wizened Cenn. Forget Graceful Reprieve, if you want your creatures back put in a sun titan. You should be able to play it soon before running out of cheap cards to play. Also you need to find some room for some removal spells so you can eliminate problem creatures. Lastly Figure of Destiny is awesome. Good luck with the deck! Here is a build of mine that if very similar to your if you are interested. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=137065 Here are two legacy builds http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=238611 http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=225624
Looks like a great deck. I have a few suggestions for you to consider. Personally I would rather have removal than protection so I would run Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshare instead of Brave the Elements, and I would move it to the sideboard. I would rather have Angelic Destiny instead of Sword of Vengeance. It helps you against flying or gives you away to attack unblocked and it doesn't suffer the same weakness that most enchantments have. You are actually more likely to run into artifact hate instead of enchantment hate. Also I would say that unless you are going up against black you may be better off putting White Knight in the sideboard and run Knight of Meadowgrain in the mainboard. Although with Dismember running rampant today white knight is still a solid choice. It may be worth finding room for 1 Kinsbaile Cavalier also, he is a game changer if he sticks around. Silver Knight, Leyline of Sanctity, Wrath of God/Day of Judgement are all solid sideboard options. Good luck with the deck!
Looks like a great deck. Personally I would rather mainboard 4 Gatekeeper of Malakir and run 4 go for the throat instead of 2x Feast of Blood, 2x Blade of the Bloodchief and 4x Urge to Feed. That will give you better overall board advantage. Also if you ever get your hands on Vampire Nocturnus he really beefs up vampires. Vampire Lacerator also are great 1 cost creatures and work particularly well with Sorin Markov Good luck with the deck! Check out my vampire deck that has done very well for me. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=235241
Sundial is very confusing and I made the same mistake at 1st. The problem is Hell spark and ball lighting trigger at the end of every endstep because it is printed on the card. So you will be able save it on your turn but will have to sacrifice it on your opponents endstep.
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