Discussion Forum

You're not alone, I agree completely. Especially when decks with dozens of comments are set as easy bait for trolls. Just look at racky54's most recent post in the suggestions, it's getting out of hand. Also look at every comment by "SnarlingToes" (they aren't hard to find) and you'll see why the hot decks page harms the community as much as it helps. Besides, decks that already have comments and attention won't need help as much as the unloved decks do, if anything those should be front page.

What if the Hot Page was moved out of the default- as in when you go to mtgvault.com it shows the New Deck page with Hot Decks on the side. I disagree with the hot page again because of all the like grabbing. But isn't it functionally the same to Active Decks? I think the problem with it is being in the spotlight instead of New Decks. At least on the old Vault the New Decks were accessible by that little sidebar, but now, people have to click a whole different link to access them, and many people don't do that and therefore only see the Hot Decks. And yeah, Gaspartacus really nailed it with that last post.

Also look at all the comment on the New Decks page. There are 10 decks with comments. 2 of those decks are just conversations between friends. 1 is a friendly question with no deck advice. 6 are "heyyyyyyy look at my deck k thx bye" The only other deck is a comment saying MOAR ZUBERAS, which as nice as it is- it really doesn't help the deck. Since the Hot Decks Page, there have been little to no constructive comments on other decks, and the current New Decks Page is a perfect example of that.

Edit: New Page has changed- so go to the second page and basically look up from the I Want You to Kill My Creatures Deck

I mean sorry if I come off as a dick in my comments, but I really feel like this is the wrong move for the Vault.

We felt that having new decks as the homepage made the site feel empty. None of the new decks had likes or comments on them so the homepage to a brand new user looked like a very inactive community, why would anybody post their deck here if nobody comments on them?! We're always trying to get more users so that there are more people to help others out with their decks, that's our #1 priority.

Clearly the trolls are a problem that we need to find a solution to.

[QUOTE=Gary]We felt that having new decks as the homepage made the site feel empty. None of the new decks had likes or comments on them so the homepage to a brand new user looked like a very inactive community, why would anybody post their deck here if nobody comments on them?! We're always trying to get more users so that there are more people to help others out with their decks, that's our #1 priority.

Clearly the trolls are a problem that we need to find a solution to.[/QUOTE]
The top paragraph makes sense to me- I can see the reasoning- comments concentrated on a few decks are better than nothing

As for the bottom part of your quote, would IP bans be a feasible solution?

I think IP bans would help, but as with the common suggestion of moderators, I have a feeling it's not as easy as "Oh, hey, let's just add in IP bans".

Yeah I can't imagine how hard that would be to implement... It would probably take weeks... Though I like the Rep idea Gary mentioned on another thread. Maybe if other users delete the troll's comments off of their decks the trolls get negative Rep?

Well, it looks like we've already reached the limit of stupid attention whoring.

Maybe a way of ignoring decks you don't like? So, the dumb deck vanishes from the Hot page and whatever was next down the line replaces it? That way "DURRR 40 THRAGTUSKS" and "PLEASE COMMENT ON MY DECK" get to keep their circlejerk but we don't have to look at it.

I totally understand wanting to not alienate a new user and make it seem "less stale", but at what cost? When a new user shows up to the home page and the first 5 decks posted all have thirty plus Black Lotus and no thought whatsoever other than to see how high the cost of the deck can go, the whole site looks like a joke. I love this site and have been using it for 3 years now. I don't want to see it turned into a circus of trolls and idiots who don't love the game. I try not to take things seriously (I know this is just the internet) but this is sorta serious. I recently told 3 of my friends who play to check out the site. They did and they were very confused. The first deck on the "Hot" list "Thats right i went there!". With decks like that leading the way for what is "Hot" the value of the sites vast resources. I personally hope this changes.

:manawb: for life

[QUOTE=morado1313]I totally understand wanting to not alienate a new user and make it seem "less stale", but at what cost? When a new user shows up to the home page and the first 5 decks posted all have thirty plus Black Lotus and no thought whatsoever other than to see how high the cost of the deck can go, the whole site looks like a joke. I love this site and have been using it for 3 years now. I don't want to see it turned into a circus of trolls and idiots who don't love the game. I try not to take things seriously (I know this is just the internet) but this is sorta serious. I recently told 3 of my friends who play to check out the site. They did and they were very confused. The first deck on the "Hot" list "Thats right i went there!". With decks like that leading the way for what is "Hot" the value of the sites vast resources. I personally hope this changes.

:manawb: for life[/QUOTE]

Maybe a "report deck" option and a certain amount would make the deck revert to a private deck? I feel like that would be abused though...

[QUOTE=racky54]Maybe a "report deck" option and a certain amount would make the deck revert to a private deck? I feel like that would be abused though...[/QUOTE]

Not if it was limited only to users with a certain amount of rep, like downvoting.

[QUOTE=surewhynot]Not if it was limited only to users with a certain amount of rep, like downvoting.[/QUOTE]
Damn I think that's a really good idea.

I've bought back the "Buried" functionality which existed on the old site, so I can easily remove ANY decks I want from the homepage.

Obviously this isn't ideal, as I won't catch everything, but least it's there. We also are now logging IP's against all users, so we can easily see the multis and choose the appropriate course of action.

The algorithm for the hot page isn't finalised, I am constantly tweaking it to see how it affects the results. So far I've made older decks drop off quicker and actually increased the basic requirements to get on the page (imo it was too easy). As previously said, it's ever changing.

Ian

[QUOTE=Gary]We felt that having new decks as the homepage made the site feel empty. None of the new decks had likes or comments on them so the homepage to a brand new user looked like a very inactive community, why would anybody post their deck here if nobody comments on them?! We're always trying to get more users so that there are more people to help others out with their decks, that's our #1 priority.[/QUOTE]

I can see how this could be a problem for new users, but as you can see the community has already come up with it's own substitution for getting their new decks on the hot page: the 300 comment monstrosity that's been at the top of hot decks for a week. Revealing the number of views for decks might make the New feed seem more active (and more palatable to new users)? Even though that's more of a kind of superficial fix that doesn't necessarily convey a proactive community, it should show the kind of activity you want.

All I know is that I used to get a few helpful comments once my deck hit the New feed when it was the front page, and the last 4 I've made have received none. The Hot feed being on the front page is just further advertising for already popular decks, which might make the community look more active but in reality makes the average user's experience more stale...in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Gary]Clearly the trolls are a problem that we need to find a solution to.[/QUOTE]

The other issue that people seem to have (which I personally have very few qualms with) are the so-called "troll decks". Completely unviable/unplayable/infeasible decks that pop up in the feeds. Is there a way to make it so that decks that would be illegal in any of the formats won't come up in those feeds? I feel like that would take off a majority of the decks that bother people without stepping on too many toes. (Frankly, some of the "troll decks" people point out aren't great...but they're still functional decks. Hell, I made a colorless manaramp deck with no win condition just to see what it could do..does that mean it's a troll deck? I think not.)

I really enjoy this website, and I don't plan on leaving anytime soon. These problems really aren't all that integral to my experience here (I mostly just use the site to store and refine deck ideas). I hope these suggestions are helpful and that everything works out for the best :)

I think the answer is to show both new decks and hot decks on a new combined homepage, that way everybody gets what they want, the site looks busy AND helps new decks get help. We can then have both pages as separate tabs like we currently do and link to them from the homepage via "show me more new/hot decks" buttons.

I like your idea a lot, we've been toying with an idea of auto-tagging decks with legality so that we can better find decks without relying on users tagging things themselves. We could use these auto-generated tags to limit what is pulled into the hot decks page.

Thanks for your suggestions! :)