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The problem I see with this is that, even with 1000 cards, it will just resort to a combo kill every time since that will be the "easiest" to pull off.

It will be a huge toolbox but will likely always search out similar tools (they're staples for a reason). You get a Sunforger package, T&N package, Reanimator Package, Enter the Infinite, whatever... It will all end in a kiki mite, mike and trike, etc combo because you're just including a bunch of tutor packages to trivialize the enlarged deck size. (Tutors become exponentially more valuable as the size of the deck increases)

Not to mention effectively shuffling 1000 sleaved cards would be impossible (even a 100 card EDH deck is a pain...) and you'd have a much higher chance of getting flooded/screwed on mana even with a good 40% ratio. When you're only going to see ~2% of the deck during a game, every game becomes statistically irrelevant. You could get 20 lands straight and it wouldn't even be "bad luck" yet since you've only touched such an insignificant amount of the deck.

I would instead suggest you build a high powered cube. You'll still get to play all those cool vintage cards but will actually get to see some variety and strategy rather than playing draw/ramp til you find a tutor and then creating a tutor chain into a combo finish which will most likely be too slow anyway.

I have a high powered cube but setting up a draft session these days takes up to much time which I don't have, I also have 10 highly tuned EDH decks but it gets boring after a while. I want a challenge. This is not the first time I play a big deck, though it will be my first above 500 cards. I ran a 500 card deck for years.
In my old playgroup there is a guy who ran a 600 card deck for over 6 years, and it was POWERFULL. It was the most overpowered deck I've seen in my life. He also worked on it like a maniac.
Another friend from my old group has a 1700 card deck and it's very cool. Lets say I grew into it and it's heaps of fun. Look at it this way, before EDH became mainstream everyone would look down on an EDH deck with an attitude of, what a looser, he plays a 60+ deck, lol. This is exactly the same.

Also my group is not alone in this, there is a writer on Starcity Games who runs a I think 2000 card monster and I've seen a dude get a high win ratio with a legacy Battle of Wits deck against multiple legacy T1 decks on starcity games about a year back as well.
Remember how in 1994 we all played decks that turned creatures sideways? Look back on those days and how boring those decks would be if you had to play them again. My Sengir Vampire attckes, woot...

Shuffling I admit is a cheat, but most casual groups will accept it. You basically take about a 100 card stack out of your huge deck box and start playing, each time you fetch or otherwise shuffle your library you can decide to put the stack back shuffle some cards around and take a fresh chunk out of your deck (and riffle it before drawing from it). It's not like the deck is stacked but it's still a cheat as you can thin out land from one pile or take a fresh pile to increase your land percentage. Little stuff like that.
You also don't pile suffle or maybe you do but only once per evening, it's more like shuffling individual parts of the deck before drawing from them.

I don't want to big a focus on combo for the reasons you mentioned. The idea is that when playing 10 games you will have played 10 totally different games. I don't use tutors often, not even in EDH, for the same reason, I like randomness and tutors kill that sensation. When I use tutors it's to toolbox, to be able to respond to a potential wide array of problems.

I've helped people here for years, All I'm asking is an open mind and poeple to help me for a change. Just list up yer favourite abuse, that's all I ask.

When I say Gift targets I mean stuff like

Revaillark+Karmic Guide+Eternal Witness+Whatever you need

rather then

Kiki-Jiki+Pestermite+... kill combo

I want abusive stuff that doesn't necessary end the game but rather advances your board in some really unfair or hard to break fashion. Kills are welcome too but they will make up a very low percentage of the deck.

[QUOTE]When I say Gift targets I mean stuff like

Revaillark+Karmic Guide+Eternal Witness+Whatever you need

rather then

Kiki-Jiki+Pestermite+... kill combo
[/QUOTE]

The problem is that both of those are "kill combos" Karmic/lark is an infinite combo just like kiki mite. It just requires an additional card or two that can all be found by gifts or getting gifts back with witness and recasting... (Mirror Entity/sac outlet+[anything that deals damage on creatures dying])

I just don't see the appeal or how they could be considered viable with that many cards in one deck. Not to mention any fetch or toolbox tutor would take 10 minutes to resolve as you sift through 1000 cards. In the end, it's just a goodstuff.dec which is uninteresting to me. I suppose it could work but really there's already tons of posts with generic combos or staple lists. It would be easier for us to help tune it rather than tell you where to begin with 1000 cards.

I didn't actually find 90's magic to be boring. You still had the same tools as now. Creatures/combat tricks/control/removal/wipes/direct damage/etc... Now there are just many more options and a lot of the "staples" are just cards that reached a little too far. Even in 94 you could channel-fireball win on turn 1 or stalemate with a serra angel vs sengir vampire until someone got enough advantage to punch through... It's the same now just with more flashy creatures and spells.

- I'm not saying it wasn't intersting back then, I had a blast, but shift that to today and it would bore me to death.

- I will start structuring a deck in this post so you can comment if you like. But you'll be the only one I'm afraid. People have a hard time looking at EDH decks let alone anything bigger. At least you have the experience to see the patterns and that's what it is about, numbers of cards serving a simular purpose.

Maybe I'll start with 600 cards instead of 1000, it will make the mana base more stable. But it's still a mind boggling project where I just have to list everything I want to play and then start cutting, ordering stuff etc...
But it's not uninteresting, you have to play it to understand and I'm willing to bet you if you like EDH and multiplayer you would love playing this type of deck.
But I'm not a hypocrite, I confess that I used to be like you and failed to see the reason why anyone would play such a deck, I could not accept that it could be any good. Took me 2 years of constant loosing againt my friend with the 600 card deck that convinced me.

You know what's even more fun, 2headed giant with 2 of these monsters, it's the best fun I've ever had playing magic.

The problem I have with EDH after playing the format since it first popped up years ago is the 100 card restriction and the ever increasing ban list because poeple now get it, that 100 card singleton can be optimized just as well as any other deck. And they start to make it competitive rather then just fun. Make those 100 cards, 200 cards and it gets more intersting, add another 100 cards and it gets even better.
You have no room in a 100 card deck, 40 cards is land, another 40 are staples that you need to make your deck run and you end up with 20% variation between decks at best.

but this is not a debate about formats, I've played them all and I liked many. Now I'm making a big unfair deck. I'll post bits and pieces whenever I get a bit of time and I'll build it once it looks good. stay tuned :)


PS: Reveillark as an engine is not a kill combo, it's a soft lock. When you play in a group used to dealing with problems like these then you'll run into a lot of graveyard hate among other stuff.

Seth, check out this format (called 5-color):

http://www.5-color.com/

Seems to fit with your deck idea.

Yeah that's sort of what we play but without restrictions aside from the usual vitage/legacy restriction/banned lists and the normal rules of magic.
But who plays for Ante, that's like killing your format before it ever gains support. Also the thing about proxies makes for a mixed crowd and something that will never get picked up by wizards.

Anyway, I'm having trouble starting my deck, I have mixed feelings about how competitive it should be (something I always struggle with). After having played competitive legacy for over 2 years I'm inclined to make a 4 or 5 color deck that looks like a legacy deck but with a higher mana curve and geared towards longer games and multiplayer games. But I'm afraid of how the deck will be accepted, I don't think people appreciate Survival of the fittest + Vengevine shenanigans even when playing 300+ cards...but I want to be able to play it and sort of relive those moments if you know what I mean. I have missed cards like Survival (in legacy) and recurring nightmare (in EDH). I want all the highlights of magic in one deck. Much like playing cube but without having to orgenize a 8 people get together.


I guess I'm just going to have to start a list, I'll post something in a bit, then maybe people can throw me some feedback....

[QUOTE=Seth]Yeah that's sort of what we play but without restrictions aside from the usual vitage/legacy restriction/banned lists and the normal rules of magic.
But who plays for Ante, that's like killing your format before it ever gains support. Also the thing about proxies makes for a mixed crowd and something that will never get picked up by wizards.

Anyway, I'm having trouble starting my deck, I have mixed feelings about how competitive it should be (something I always struggle with). After having played competitive legacy for over 2 years I'm inclined to make a 4 or 5 color deck that looks like a legacy deck but with a higher mana curve and geared towards longer games and multiplayer games. But I'm afraid of how the deck will be accepted, I don't think people appreciate Survival of the fittest + Vengevine shenanigans even when playing 300+ cards...but I want to be able to play it and sort of relive those moments if you know what I mean. I have missed cards like Survival (in legacy) and recurring nightmare (in EDH). I want all the highlights of magic in one deck. Much like playing cube but without having to orgenize a 8 people get together.


I guess I'm just going to have to start a list, I'll post something in a bit, then maybe people can throw me some feedback....[/QUOTE]


ante is optional

That may be so but just mentioning it gives an "this is an old long forgotten format" feel to it.


anyway here's what I have so far, needs cutting and tweaking the numbers, I also have to investigate if it has enough mana fix/ramp to be able to get of the ground and enough early game defense to survive. I also need to investigate the percentage of card advantage cards.

I haven't added land yet (will be about 40%)

Seth's Bigass Deck