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You think you know the rules but you don't, not by a long shot. Asking for help like you do here is the way to go but I would appreciate it if you didn't give other players inccorect and confusing advice like you've been doing.

- the exile zone is a zone, so is the battlefield and the graveyard. If a creature moves from one zone to another a zone change occurs and certain effects trigger like "when creature leaves play".
When a card says exile target creature the creature leaves its current zone and goes to the exile zone. The spell that exiles a creature (like Path to Exile) will resolve first, removing the creature from the battlefield and putting it in the exile zone, all triggered abilities that trigger due to that creature leaving the battlefield will go on the stack and will resolve.

- tokens that leave the battlefield cease to exist, they are gone forever.

- cards that leave the battlefield are reset as it where. If a creature leaves the battlefield and then returns to the battlefield it is concidered a new creature. Nothing of its previous state remains.
If Riders of Gavony leaves play it's protection giving ability is gone, it no longer applies as the source of that ability is gone. When it returns to play its a new creature and its previous state is gone so it can give protection for only 1 creature type.

Thanks for the help. I didn't it was this way that's why I asked. I had asked a juge and it was explained to me that way and that spells being exiled don't resolve until it come back into play. That imformation seems to be odd. Now I won't make the deck I had in mind.

[QUOTE=vines]Thanks for the help. I didn't it was this way that's why I asked. I had asked a juge and it was explained to me that way and that spells being exiled don't resolve until it come back into play. That imformation seems to be odd. Now I won't make the deck I had in mind.[/QUOTE]

You must have misunderstood him because cards don't resolve, it's incorrect terminology and its very important for a judge to use correct terminology.

Spells resolve and abilities resolve, cards and permanents don't resolve. When you cast a card from your hand it becomes a spell on the stack until it resolves and then it becomes either a permanent when it goes to the battlefield (and is no longer being reffered to as a spell) or it goes to the yard in which case it is usually refferend to by its card type.

Now what he could have said is that when a spell (a card that is on the stack because it was cast) is exiled it doesn't resolve. This is correct, the card is removed from the stack and goes to the exile zone. There is no zone change because the card was never in play, it was exiled from the stack and as such does not resolve. This kind of thing is very rare but it does happen.
This however has nothing to do with permanents that are being exiled, when a permanent (=a card of the battlefield) is exiled a zone change occures and abilities tied to zone changes trigger and go on the stack.

Now I'm at a loss. To me it sounds like you are agreeing with what I had in mind. What I had in mind is to make a deck that pumped out token creatures a long with creature abilites that triggered when creatures came into play. And the deck would allow me to exile any all creatures before they had a chance to go to the graveyard, allowing me; in affect, to bring back the token creature cards and creature cards into the battle. With the deck I had in mind the creatures/tokens would never reach the graveyard so they never get to resolve. They are stuck in their 'card' form until they either get back to the battle and become a permanent creature/creature-token or go to the grave yard and resolve as a card. It's a really bad-ass idea I have in mind. Get back to me on this. I really want to make this deck, if it is with in the rules.

Tokens that change zones cease to exist.

Only spells on the stack "resolve". Once it is in play, it is a permanent. The spell or effect that created it has already resolved, that is how it came to exist in the first place.

If a token goes into exile, phases out, gets returned to your hand, dies, etc... it ceases to exist when state based actions are checked. You could try to make a deck that pulls cards from exile somehow, but not tokens.

Here are the relevant rulings from the comprehensive rules that you can look up yourself if you would like.

110.5f A token that?s phased out, or that?s in a zone other than the battlefield, ceases to exist. This
is a state-based action; see rule 704. (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered
abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)
110.5g A token that has left the battlefield can?t move to another zone or come back onto the
battlefield. If such a token would change zones, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases
to exist the next time state-based actions are checked; see rule 704.

Have you read anything I've said in the 5 or so posts you interacted with? Tokens that are exiled are gone, they can't come back.

There is so much about magic you don't understand correctly that you either need to find yourself an experienced tournament player who is willing to sit down with you and explain all this stuff to you or you need to start reading the actual rulebook which can be found here

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules

I can't help you until you understand proper magic terminology. It's the only way to communicate correctly and unambiguously.

You need to read about

- spells and permanents
- priority and the stack (there's a nice article here)
- everything about tokens
- 406. Exile
- 604. Handling Static Abilities

best thing to do is just start by reading the entire rulebook if you don't have any experienced players around to explain it to you.

406.1. The exile zone is essentially a holding area for objects. tokens are objects and so are cards. Tokens are being held in the exile zone until they move to the graveyard or back to the battle. Thanks for pointing me that. It will be a great help. If you can point me to a rule that the exile zone doesn't hold token then point me to that. other wise 406.1 seems to say tht tokens are held in the exile zone. Like I've been saying all along.

I already linked the relevant rules. A token that leaves the battlefield cannot return and a token that changes zones ceases to exist when state based actions are checked.

Do not try to create your own rules from what is there. It is very specific on tokens and I already posted them above. You're not going to find a loophole. Tokens that leave play are gone.

110.5f A token that's phased out, or that's in a zone other than the battlefield, ceases to exist. This
is a state-based action; see rule 704. (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered
abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)

Okay so what happen if a token can't be put in the graveyard and can't be exiled would it stay in play?

tokens can be exiled and for purposes of graveyard based triggered effects they go to the graveyard (briefly) when destroyed.

There are some cards keep tokens from going to the graveyard all together. But back to my question is what happens if a token or non-token creature can't go in either zone when it gets killed? Where does it go then?

Do you have an example of such a situation? I can't think of one.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure if a card existed that prevented something from going to exile, it would be a staple in every EDH deck.

However, a circular loop of replacement effects would either end the game in a draw or make you choose which one to go to. Either way, your creature will not stay in play.

There is but it is not standard so I wasn't going to put in the deck. But once you got both cards in play would in effect put the token in the exile zone but brings it back. But there is also a few cards that you can bring back if it goes into exile,however, most of them bring back a token of the creature so they don't work on token creatures. Reading the rules I found that you can bring back a token so long as it comes back immediately. Unless there is a rule contradicting that rule too. But want to stay with in standard. If you could do that though it would be a good move.

If a card exists that blocks things from going to exile, tell us the name. It is likely that you are misunderstanding how it works.

[QUOTE]Reading the rules I found that you can bring back a token so long as it comes back immediately.[/QUOTE]

Where are you seeing this? It is not in the rules. In fact, I included the direct opposite of this in my very first post in the thread.

110.5g A token that has left the battlefield can't move to another zone or come back onto the battlefield. If such a token would change zones, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases to exist the next time state-based actions are checked; see rule 704.

yeah but there is another rule that says they can come back if they come back right then such as an effect of a card. It's near one of the rules Seth pointed out to me. You'll find that there are a lot of rules that contradict other rules. It's one of the rules about objects. It happens before the state-based actions are checked.

[QUOTE=vines]yeah but there is another rule that says they can come back if they come back right then such as an effect of a card. It's near one of the rules Seth pointed out to me. You'll find that there are a lot of rules that contradict other rules. It's one of the rules about objects. It happens before the state-based actions are checked.[/QUOTE]

then post the actual rule because there's no such rule.

The reason this "other rule" you speak of cannot work is because the characteristics of a token are created by the spell/ability that created it. If you exile and then return an object, it becomes a new object. The problem then becomes that the new token is created by the ability that exiled/returned it and that ability does not define the token. Hence the rule preventing the token from returning from exile.

As Seth said, this rule does not exist.

im starting to suspect that vines is just a troll i find it hard to believe that a person that plays the game at all couldnt understand this by now i showed this thread to a friend that had never heard of magic till i told him about and hes not a player at all and he understood it right after reading this

also vines epsilon and seth are probly the most knowledgable people that regularly post on here after they told me multiple times that i was wrong i would stop questioning it read the rulebook and instead of trying to figure how they are wrong id figure how they are right itll be alot easier

And yet there is now rule that say something like it will keep its same Properties. So the token creature will stay the same token creatrue. That rule also works when a creature is another creature. Check it out if you don't believe me.
Edit: I'm taking there advice. I've been reading the rules. And there are exceptions to the rules. That's all I'm showing.

[QUOTE=vines]And yet there is now rule that say something like it will keep its same Properties. So the token creature will stay the same token creatrue. That rule also works when a creature is another creature. Check it out if you don't believe me.
Edit: I'm taking there advice. I've been reading the rules. And there are exceptions to the rules. That's all I'm showing.[/QUOTE]

As we've requested multiple times, show the rule you're finding. I've looked through every rule with the word "token" and saw no exception to the rule I posted above. If I somehow missed it, give the rule #.

Rule exceptions are generally in sub sections within the rules about specific things. The rule I listed above technically IS the exception. Otherwise, blink effects would work on tokens and there would be confusion on the properties of the new object/token that is created. The exceptions are there for clarification on questionable interactions. Rather than cause another rules nightmare, they decided to make it so tokens could not return at all. (aka they made an exception for immediate blink effects)

Alright I'll for the rules I speak of tomorrow. I have another question. Angel of Serenity does it exile 3 creatures from the battle and the graveyard. The reason I ask is because a little while back. I was playing some guy and that son of a bitch laid down Angel of Serenity and made me exile 6 creatures. I still had 1 creature in but it was a small fry. I was play green and black. I have should have asked the other players there but I didn't. So now I'm saying you, the people here. I still won the game but if Angel of Sereniity is that powerful please tell me.

[QUOTE=vines]Alright I'll for the rules I speak of tomorrow. I have another question. Angel of Serenity does it exile 3 creatures from the battle and the graveyard. The reason I ask is because a little while back. I was playing some guy and that son of a bitch laid down Angel of Serenity and made me exile 6 creatures. I still had 1 creature in but it was a small fry. I was play green and black. I have should have asked the other players there but I didn't. So now I'm saying you, the people here. I still won the game but if Angel of Sereniity is that powerful please tell me.[/QUOTE]

When Angel of Serenity enters the battlefield, you may exile up to three other target creatures from the battlefield and/or creature cards from graveyards.

Up to three targets. The and/or does not let you choose 3 from both locations, it lets you choose 3 from any combination of both rather than forcing it to be all in GY or all in play. The other player was taking advantage of you.

Yeah I kind of figured.

406.1
406.6
And the rule about the times when an object doesn't change its Properties when it changes zones
406.1 says an object can come back if something allows it to come back. 406.6 says it becomes a new object but it doesnt' change zones. And that rule about something taking on the properties of another thing will keep those same properties when coming back into the battle zone that it left with. It becomes a new object but with the same properties.

Generic rules are overruled by specific rules. While a token is an object, an object is not specifically a token. Rely on the token specific rules which clearly state they cannot come back at all.

[QUOTE=me15159]im starting to suspect that vines is just a troll i find it hard to believe that a person that plays the game at all couldnt understand this by now i showed this thread to a friend that had never heard of magic till i told him about and hes not a player at all and he understood it right after reading this

also vines epsilon and seth are probly the most knowledgable people that regularly post on here after they told me multiple times that i was wrong i would stop questioning it read the rulebook and instead of trying to figure how they are wrong id figure how they are right itll be alot easier[/QUOTE]

He seems to be an amazing troll, i have been laughing so hard reading all his posts, he is trying to bend rules in an astonishing way, so fun...

Dude if you are not a troll you need an english dictionary, so that you can better understand rules

About the tokens just read again

110.5f A token that is phased out, or that is in a zone other than the battlefield, ceases to exist. This
is a state-based action; see rule 704. (Note that if a token changes zones, applicable triggered
abilities will trigger before the token ceases to exist.)
110.5g A token that has left the battlefield can not move to another zone or come back onto the
battlefield. If such a token would change zones, it remains in its current zone instead. It ceases
to exist .


Best regards