Discussion Forum

play flusterstorm main

ive never played with it, is it any good? im mostly worried about counterspells, and dispel is great at stopping those. im not not 100 percent sold on it though, its a flex slot really. maybe ill tryout fluster storm.

the original list was running

-1 progenitus
-1 emrakul
-1 land
-1 natural order
+4 daze

im still not sure which set up was working better..
there's definitely some wiggle room here but im having trouble finding the right configuration.
i even tried adding some preordain for a few matches.. the problem im having is its hard to tell how much of an effect changing subtle numbers has over just plain good or bad draws

flusterstorm is the best possible way to win a counterwar, that and it's awesome against other combo decks.

My Sneak and Show configuration was

8 creatures
8 enablers (show and tell and sneak attack)
10 cantrips (ponder, brainstorm, preordain)
1 intuition
3 flusterstorm
4 force of will
3 misdirection (my friend stopped playing these and plays daze)
4 Lotus Petal
19 land

[QUOTE=Seth]flusterstorm is the best possible way to win a counterwar, that and it's awesome against other combo decks.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't call it the "best" way to win a counter war... It's definitely a powerful way to do it and only costs 1.

Mindbreak Trap can do the same thing for free and even counters an opponent's Flusterstorm...

Last word and Counterflux can also do it without allowing them to respond short of a Venser or Time Stop effect...

The "best" way to win a counter war is to prevent them from starting one.

[QUOTE=_Epsilon_]I wouldn't call it the "best" way to win a counter war... It's definitely a powerful way to do it and only costs 1.

Mindbreak Trap can do the same thing for free and even counters an opponent's Flusterstorm...

Last word and Counterflux can also do it without allowing them to respond short of a Venser or Time Stop effect...

The "best" way to win a counter war is to prevent them from starting one.[/QUOTE]

Ok let me rephrase, flusterstorm is the best way to win counterwars in competitive tournament legacy. Mindbreak Trap is even more narrow allround then flusterstorm but it's the only one that is also an option. The other two cost far to much mana. We're discussing a combo deck here, this means the combo player initiates the play by already spending a lot of mana for his kill card and this usually in the first few rounds of the game. Few combo decks have so much mana that they can start playing 3cc counterspells (High Tide/Candelabra decks are probably the only exception).

As for preventing a counterwar it is an option but I wouldn't call it better. It usually involves playing a creature or spell that says the opponent can't play spells this turn or his spells cost an additional x mana. It's a strategy but it also pollutes the combo deck and the counterwar is then usually fought over the protection spell/creature intead of over the combo enabler. It just shifts the strategy but doesn't change much.

I do agree that Discard (usually cabal therapy) is one of the best options available to the combo player for protection. Aluren, Hulk Combo and Tendrils decks usually use this method of protection.

That said counterwars aren't bad for combo decks, afterall they start the combo and if they have a counterspell of some kind it means the opponent needs 2 to hold them off, if the combo player has 2 counterspells it's 99% of the time a done deal. I lost only once with 2 counter backup in my hand from an opponent going Pierce, force, force on turn 2. I didn't see that comming :)

To alleywayjack: Xantid Swarm is something you could concider in sideboard, it sometimes sees play in Green Sun Zenith based Natural Order decks which is a good way to go.
This also reminds me that you don't have Dryad Arbor in your deck. Natural Order decks usually play it (even up to 2 copies) as
- 1: a fetchable creature that can be sacked to Natural Order,
- 2: a way to play around edict effects (opponent plays edict, you fetch in respons and sac Dryad)

xantid swarm works pretty great with natural order, so thats cool.
for some reason i wasnt thinking about the fact that i could fetch dryad arbor with a fetch land. x_x' so i added one of those in there.

took out the dispels for spell pierces main, but i have some flusterstorms in the side for combo decks.
i might try flusterstorm main and see how i like it, but spell pierce is definitely pulling its weight more than dispel was so far.