Discussion Forum

The way the ability is written I don't think he is allowed to block with flashed in creatures.

Yup.
Basically, all blockers are declared at once in a single uninterrupted event, which Odric lets you (mostly) control. Your opponent can either play the viper before this, and you can just choose not to declare it as a blocker, or afterward, where it's too late to do anything. Either way, it can't get involved in the combat (There is no such thing as a second round of blocking declaration).

This is a tricky one, however, I have the answer. Both players can assign blockers, however, you get priority once you assign the blockers you want the priority is sent to the other player. At which point he can also assign blockers. Normally one cannot just add in a creature during the assignment of blockers however, if a creature card has flash it can be played during assignment of blockers. So yeah what he did is legit. It was a good, sound play. He got you that round. However, in that position you could play Cloudshift.

Edit: he can't reassin cretures you have assign to not block. Only creatures you have not put any assignment on. Normally in cases like these when the priority is passed to owner of the creatures it would be all said and done and the player wouldn't have any creatures left to assign, however, in this case he has a creature that you did put any assiment to.

i have to disagree with vines declare blockers happens at once and odric give you cntrol of that when your done no more blockers can be declared period cause its a new phase in the turn at that point

The creature in effect makes another step where normally there would only be one instead there are two declare blockers phases. One for the onwer of Odric and one for the owner's of the creatures that Odric is forcing to act as blocker. Then the owner of the creature's gets hisor her normal phase to block. In which he can summon that creature with deathtouch just after you assign blocker but before his normal declare blockers phase would start. Odric doesn't take away the opponent's blocking phase it simply adds a blocking assignment phase for the owner of Odric. And normally it would when it came to the opponents normal phase to declare blockers he or she wouldn't have any new blockers to assign but that is not the case in the example. I've tried to use Odric in play testing and it just doesn't work. In order for Odric to work well you need an average of 10 lands out and 3 or more cards in your hand. And also the number of creatures on the battle grounds in order to activate Odric's power. It can be done but you need a big deck and one that is super at shuting down your opponents attacks. Now if you are making a show-off that can stop any deck then Ordic, Master Tactician is one of the cards you need in the deck. However, I don't know what format that type of deck would be and it would be far too costly to make. IMO not worth it.

Vines is incorrect...

All blocks are declared simultaneously (if the snake is not in play before this declare blockers step, he cannot block since blocks have already been declared). The only way you can "flash in a blocker" against Odric declaring no blockers is with Flash Foliage.

but in this case there are two declare blockers phases. The first one happens before the owner of the creature enters his declare blockers phase. No where does it say that it takes aways the owner's declare blocker phases all it says it the attacker now gets one too. That's all, simple. Why are to trying to make it more complex. There are exceptions to the rules and this is one of them.

No, it does not create a second blocking phase. That would make it a rather useless ability since you could just declare blocks after the Odric player declares no blocks.

All it does is give control of declaring blockers to the owner of Odric. It still happens in the correct turn order. The ONLY way to block when Odric says no blocks is to play a spell that puts a creature into play blocking which gets around the declare blockers step.

It already is simple, there's no complexity to it. All blocks are declared at once. If a creature enters after blocks are declared, it's too late. If it enters before blocks are declared, it's included in the "doesn't block" declaration.

The exception to the rule that you're so fond of is the example I already gave with Flash Foliage type spells.

That card also works. No, you can't reassign blockers that have been already assigned. A player can only assign blockers that have not be assigned. So normally by the time the owner got to his normaly blocking phase all creatures would be already assigned, giving him nothing to assign, however, with flash that changes. Someone asked a good question and I have them the answers. Most people over look the fact that Odric never takes away the owners normal assignment of blockers phase. Also you need to read my other post before posting. I've gone over this already. And the fact that you don't know that blockers can't be reassigned within the same combat phase kind of makes me wonder if you really know the basics. Sure I make mistakes from time to time but that's because I'm trying to help people out. However, I'm spot on with my advice this time.

There is not a second block step and blockers cannot be "reassigned" short of using a card that does it directly. So no, you're not "spot on this time".

Please stop giving rules advice as you clearly do not understand them at all.

Here are the rules for the entire Declare Blockers step. Odric specifically states that you control which creatures block and how. The only thing he does is cause you to replace the defending player in declaring blockers with yourself. He does not create some extra step, he creates a replacement effect in each of the bolded sections below.

509. Declare Blockers Step
509.1. First, the defending player declares blockers. This turn-based action doesn?t use the stack. To
declare blockers, the defending player follows the steps below, in order. If at any point during the
declaration of blockers, the defending player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below,
the declaration is illegal; the game returns to the moment before the declaration (see rule 717,
?Handling Illegal Actions?).
509.1a The defending player chooses which creatures that he or she controls, if any, will block. The
chosen creatures must be untapped. For each of the chosen creatures, the defending player chooses one creature for it to block that?s attacking him, her, or a planeswalker he or she
controls.
509.1b The defending player checks each creature he or she controls to see whether it?s affected by
any restrictions (effects that say a creature can?t block, or that it can?t block unless some
condition is met). If any restrictions are being disobeyed, the declaration of blockers is illegal.
A restriction may be created by an evasion ability (a static ability an attacking creature has
that restricts what can block it). If an attacking creature gains or loses an evasion ability after a
legal block has been declared, it doesn?t affect that block. Different evasion abilities are
cumulative.
Example: An attacking creature with flying and shadow can?t be blocked by a creature
with flying but without shadow.
509.1c The defending player checks each creature he or she controls to see whether it?s affected by
any requirements (effects that say a creature must block, or that it must block if some condition
is met). If the number of requirements that are being obeyed is fewer than the maximum
possible number of requirements that could be obeyed without disobeying any restrictions, the
declaration of blockers is illegal. If a creature can?t block unless a player pays a cost, that player
is not required to pay that cost, even if blocking with that creature would increase the number of
requirements being obeyed.
Example: A player controls one creature that ?blocks if able? and another creature
with no abilities. An effect states ?Creatures can?t be blocked except by two or more
creatures.? Having only the first creature block violates the restriction. Having neither
creature block fulfills the restriction but not the requirement. Having both creatures
block the same attacking creature fulfills both the restriction and the requirement, so
that?s the only option.
509.1d If any of the chosen creatures require paying costs to block, the defending player determines
the total cost to block. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing
permanents, discarding cards, and so on. Once the total cost is determined, it becomes ?locked
in.? If effects would change the total cost after this time, ignore this change.
509.1e If any of the costs require mana, the defending player then has a chance to activate mana
abilities (see rule 605, ?Mana Abilities?).
509.1f Once the player has enough mana in his or her mana pool, he or she pays all costs in any
order. Partial payments are not allowed.
509.1g Each chosen creature still controlled by the defending player becomes a blocking creature.
Each one is blocking the attacking creatures chosen for it. It remains a blocking creature until
it?s removed from combat or the combat phase ends, whichever comes first. See rule 506.4.
509.1h An attacking creature with one or more creatures declared as blockers for it becomes a
blocked creature; one with no creatures declared as blockers for it becomes an unblocked
creature. This remains unchanged until the creature is removed from combat, an effect says that
it becomes blocked or unblocked, or the combat phase ends, whichever comes first. A creature
remains blocked even if all the creatures blocking it are removed from combat.
509.2. Second, for each attacking creature that?s become blocked, the active player announces that
creature?s damage assignment order, which consists of the creatures blocking it in an order of that
player?s choice. (During the combat damage step, an attacking creature can?t assign combat damage
to a creature that?s blocking it unless each creature ahead of that blocking creature in its order is
assigned lethal damage.) This turn-based action doesn?t use the stack.
Example: Vastwood Gorger is blocked by Llanowar Elves, Runeclaw Bear, and Serra
Angel. Vastwood Gorger?s controller announces the Vastwood Gorger?s damage assignment
order as Serra Angel, then Llanowar Elves, then Runeclaw Bear.
509.2a During the declare blockers step, if a blocking creature is removed from combat or a spell or
ability causes it to stop blocking an attacking creature, the blocking creature is removed from all
relevant damage assignment orders. The relative order among the remaining blocking creatures
is unchanged.
509.3. Third, for each blocking creature, the defending player announces that creature?s damage
assignment order, which consists of the creatures it?s blocking in an order of that player?s choice.
(During the combat damage step, a blocking creature can?t assign combat damage to a creature it?s
blocking unless each creature ahead of that blocked creature in its order is assigned lethal damage.)
This turn-based action doesn?t use the stack.
509.3a During the declare blockers step, if an attacking creature is removed from combat or a spell
or ability causes it to stop being blocked by a blocking creature, the attacking creature is
removed from all relevant damage assignment orders. The relative order among the remaining
attacking creatures is unchanged.
509.4. Fourth, any abilities that triggered on blockers being declared go on the stack. (See rule 603,
?Handling Triggered Abilities.?)
509.4a An ability that reads ?Whenever [this creature] blocks, . . .? generally triggers only once
each combat for that creature, even if it blocks multiple creatures. It triggers if the creature is
declared as a blocker. It will also trigger if that creature becomes a blocker as the result of an
effect, but only if it wasn?t a blocking creature at that time. (See rule 509.1g.) It won?t trigger if
the creature is put onto the battlefield blocking.
509.4b An ability that reads ?Whenever [this creature] blocks a creature, . . .? triggers once for each
attacking creature the creature with the ability blocks. It triggers if the creature is declared as a
blocker. It will also trigger if an effect causes that creature to block an attacking creature, but
only if it wasn?t already blocking that attacking creature at that time. It won?t trigger if the
creature is put onto the battlefield blocking.
509.4c An ability that reads ?Whenever [this creature] becomes blocked, . . .? generally triggers
only once each combat for that creature, even if it?s blocked by multiple creatures. It will trigger
if that creature becomes blocked by at least one creature declared as a blocker. It will also
trigger if that creature becomes blocked by an effect or by a creature that?s put onto the
battlefield as a blocker, but only if the attacking creature was an unblocked creature at that time.
(See rule 509.1h.)
509.4d An ability that reads ?Whenever [this creature] becomes blocked by a creature, . . .? triggers
once for each creature that blocks the named creature. It triggers if a creature is declared as a
blocker for the attacking creature. It will also trigger if an effect causes a creature to block the
attacking creature, but only if it wasn?t already blocking that attacking creature at that time. In
addition, it will trigger if a creature is put onto the battlefield blocking that creature. It won?t
trigger if the creature becomes blocked by an effect rather than a creature.
509.4e If an ability triggers when a creature blocks or becomes blocked by a particular number of
creatures, the ability triggers if the creature blocks or is blocked by that many creatures when
blockers are declared. Effects that add or remove blockers can also cause such abilities to
trigger. This applies to abilities that trigger on a creature blocking or being blocked by at least a
certain number of creatures as well.
509.4f If an ability triggers when a creature with certain characteristics blocks, it will trigger only if
the creature has those characteristics at the point blockers are declared, or at the point an effect
causes it to block. If an ability triggers when a creature with certain characteristics becomes
blocked, it will trigger only if the creature has those characteristics at the point it becomes a
blocked creature. If an ability triggers when a creature becomes blocked by a creature with
certain characteristics, it will trigger only if the latter creature has those characteristics at the
point it becomes a blocking creature. None of those abilities will trigger if the relevant
creature?s characteristics change to match the ability?s trigger condition later on.
Example: A creature has the ability ?Whenever this creature becomes blocked by a
white creature, destroy that creature at end of combat.? If the creature becomes blocked
by a black creature that is later turned white, the ability will not trigger.
509.4g An ability that reads ?Whenever [this creature] attacks and isn?t blocked, . . .? triggers if no
creatures are declared as blockers for that creature. It won?t trigger if the attacking creature is
blocked and then all its blockers are removed from combat.
509.5. Fifth, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.
509.6. If a spell or ability causes a creature on the battlefield to block an attacking creature, the active
player announces the blocking creature?s placement in the attacking creature?s damage assignment
order. The relative order among the remaining blocking creatures is unchanged. Then the defending
player announces the attacking creature?s placement in the blocking creature?s damage assignment
order. The relative order among the remaining attacking creatures is unchanged. This is done as part
of the blocking effect.
509.7. If a creature is put onto the battlefield blocking, its controller chooses which attacking creature
it?s blocking as it enters the battlefield (unless the effect that put it onto the battlefield specifies
what it?s blocking), then the active player announces the new creature?s placement in the blocked
creature?s damage assignment order. The relative order among the remaining blocking creatures is
unchanged. A creature put onto the battlefield this way is ?blocking? but, for the purposes of trigger
events and effects, it never ?blocked.?
Example: Giant Spider is blocked by Canyon Minotaur. The defending player casts Flash
Foliage, which puts a Saproling token onto the battlefield blocking the Giant Spider. Giant
Spider?s controller announces the Giant Spider?s damage assignment order as the Saproling
token, then Canyon Minotaur.

First strike (This creature deals combat damage before creatures without first strike.) Whenever Odric, Master Tactician and at least three other creatures attack, you choose which creatures block this combat and how those creatures block.
----
I'm not even going to read that block of stuff you posted up. Dude, I'm done with this. Odric's ability makes a new spet where the controller gets to declear blockers. You're assuming that it takes away the other's normal step to declear blockers. No it doesn't. All those rule about declearing blockers still aply, however, there are two declear blocker steps in this case so the rules are aply twice. You are failing to see that yes while blocking happens all at the same time, there are two declear blocker steps in this case so before and after each of these steps people can plaly an instant. Just like the ability First Strike, where there is an extra attack step. Odric's ability creats an extra assignment of blocker step (which happens to come before the normal step for assigning blockers). The dude in this example got out played. Ambush viper is prefect for these kind of moments. I repeats Odric does not take away a player's normal step to declear blockers it only gives the controller of Odric a step where they too can declear blockers. Two different 'declear blockers' steps in where all the rules aply to each of these steps but seperately. Have you noticed you are the only one saying other wise? Odric is a good card but not a super card like you're trying to make it out to be.