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[QUOTE=The Badger King]I have a Butcher Ghoul (1/1 zombie with Undying) and a Diregraf Captain (2/2 Zombie captain which grants +1/+1 to all other Zombies you control) in play. The Butcher Ghoul is dealt lethal damage. Does the Undying trigger? I say that a +1/+1 effect is different from a +1/+1 counter, so at the time of death, the Butcher has no counters on him, so Undying resolves, and the Butcher Ghoul returns with a +1/+1 counter on him, then receives +1/+1 from the Captain. My opponent says that the +1/+1 effect is the same as a +1/+1 counter, and would prevent the Undying ability from triggering. Clarification?

Basically, are +X/+X effects treated as being applies via counter, or not?[/QUOTE]

I have played with Young Wolf for a while now and Immerwolf along with it, I believe this is the same scenario you have. When young wolf dies at 2/2 (Immerwolf gives him an additional +1/+1) he still comes back because he still hit the graveyard with no counters on him so his ability triggers and he comes back to the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter.

Rule 121 here: http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules/MagicCompRules_20120501.pdf

[QUOTE]121.1. A counter is a marker placed on an object or player that modifies its characteristics and/or interacts with a rule, ability, or effect. Counters are not objects and have no characteristics. Notably, a counter is not a token, and a token is not a counter. Counters with the same name or description are interchangeable.[/QUOTE]

I am bad at explaining things but counters are not equal to Continuous Effects (that is what your Captain does and my Immerwolf).

Someone please correct my bad explanation if you can shorten it D:

You have it right, Inubashiri. Like rule 121.1 says, a counter is something that is physically placed on an object on the battlefield. If your opponent doesn't understand the difference between a counter and a continuous effect and is giving you a hard time about it, tell them this: "One is a set of words, and the other I can pick up and throw at you." If that doesn't help, one might suggest pelting your friend (because if they weren't your friend, this wouldn't go over very well) with counters until they get it.

[QUOTE=efinmiller]You have it right, Inubashiri. Like rule 121.1 says, a counter is something that is physically placed on an object on the battlefield. If your opponent doesn't understand the difference between a counter and a continuous effect and is giving you a hard time about it, tell them this: "One is a set of words, and the other I can pick up and throw at you." If that doesn't help, one might suggest pelting your friend (because if they weren't your friend, this wouldn't go over very well) with counters until they get it.[/QUOTE]

Oh my god that was hilarious, I like that, glad to see I got it right. I struggle a bit sometimes to explain the rule book cause sometimes I don't fully understand it. Certainly in tourney play that wouldn't happen, your friend would be disqualified most likely for that maneuver.

[QUOTE=Inubashiri]Oh my god that was hilarious, I like that, glad to see I got it right. I struggle a bit sometimes to explain the rule book cause sometimes I don't fully understand it. Certainly in tourney play that wouldn't happen, your friend would be disqualified most likely for that maneuver.[/QUOTE]

I don't think they'd disqualify someone for getting hit w/ counters, maybe a game loss for each one that made contact ;)

[QUOTE=efinmiller]I don't think they'd disqualify someone for getting hit w/ counters, maybe a game loss for each one that made contact ;)[/QUOTE]

I see what you did there! :p