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22 views no answers....anyone?

[QUOTE=Goblin_Bombardment]i have a myr/golem artifact deck and here is the situation...buddy of mine attacks and i block with a Darksteel Juggernaut. now he plays a spell where my creature cause its blocking hits me for its power. here is where our dispute came from. i countered it by using the only two sliver myr i had out. in response he went to blow one of them up. in response i used a myr galvanizer to untap my myr and used the same two silver myr to cancel the damage spell on my myr. now i think that there is nothing wrong with my actions. he thinks that my response with me untapping my myr is the only action i could do and couldn't use them to counter the damage thus in his mind makes both of my counter spells n/a. please who is right in this.[/QUOTE]

Here's how it works with everything going on and off the stack...

1) He casts his spell that causes your blocking creature to hit you (if I'm reading that right.) It's on the stack so it hasn't resolved, yet.

2) Before that spell resolves, you tap a Silver Myr for 1 blue mana. The ability goes on the stack, he doesn't respond to it and it comes right back off the stack to resolve. You do it again with another Silver Myr with the same result.

3) You cast a counter spell. It goes on the stack, but hasn't resolved, yet. The current stack order from bottom to top is: His spell that causes your blocking creature to hit you, your counter spell.

4) Your description of his timing is a little unclear, but it sounds like he tried to kill a Silver Myr when you cast the counter spell. His kill spell goes on the stack, but hasn't resolved, yet. The current stack order from bottom to top is: His spell that causes your blocking creature to hit you, your counter spell, his kill spell.

5) You use the Myr Galvanizer's ability to untap the Silver Myrs, putting this ability on the stack above his kill spell. After it resolved, but before the kill spell resolves, you tap the Silver Myrs for blue mana and cast another counter spell targeting the kill spell. The current stack order is: His spell that causes your blocking creature to hit you, your counter spell targeting that spell, his kill spell, your counter spell targeting the kill spell.

Now that everyone is done responding, spells on the stack resolve in "last in, first out" order.

The counter spell targeting his kill spell resolves first, removing the kill spell from the stack without it having any effect.

Your counter spell targeting his spell that causes your blocking creature to hit you resolves next, removing that spell from the stack without having any effect.

so then i was right. yea that was how it went he tried telling me though at the same time when i used the galvanizer that the two blue mana i got from the silver myr the first time were then gone because i untapped them

what adamkomar says is mostly correct with the exception that mana abilities don't use the stack and as such don't require priority to be passed.

awesome thank you both

These situations are why I generally dislike the use of the phrase "in response." It could mean, "While that's on the stack, I'll do this", but could also mean, "Since you've done that (meaning it's resolved), I'm gonna do this." It's generally a better idea to stick to official game terms when doing anything in the game. Say something like, "When that goes on the stack" or "when you cast that."

This was a good lesson for me about stack and order. Priority matters.

Also, I'm reminded of a critical lesson for Tournaments. If you don't announce what you are responding to, you can have a judge called on you and you're potentially DQ'd. People who want to win will be watching for that kind of stuff.

Definitely an interesting situation you found yourself in!

[QUOTE=adamkomar]2) Before that spell resolves, you tap a Silver Myr for 1 blue mana. The ability goes on the stack, he doesn't respond to it and it comes right back off the stack to resolve. You do it again with another Silver Myr with the same result.[/QUOTE]

The way you say this implies to me that even if the myr did get blown up he would still have the mana, is that right?

Yes, the term for this is "floating" mana. In the pool and unspent. Once the effect is activated, it doesn't matter what happens to the card. In the same sense, if a creature spell is countered and the ability says "when ~~ enters play..." the effect would still happen. Once triggered, you would have to counter an activated ability.

I think the reasoning is the same for abilities in general, if the creature is destroyed but the ability isn't countered, it still happens.

[QUOTE=Seth]what adamkomar says is mostly correct with the exception that mana abilities don't use the stack and as such don't require priority to be passed.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=randombum;30218]The way you say this implies to me that even if the myr did get blown up he would still have the mana, is that right?[/QUOTE]

As Seth clarified, mana abilities don't use the stack. That was my mistake. Since they don't use the stack, you can't respond to them. Since you can't respond to them, destroying the Myrs won't prevent the mana production. You can destroy them before he taps them for mana, but then he can just tap them for mana when your destruction effect goes on the stack. You can destroy them after they're tapped for mana, but he's already gotten the mana by that time.

Either way, he gets the mana.

[QUOTE=cob]Yes, the term for this is "floating" mana. In the pool and unspent. Once the effect is activated, it doesn't matter what happens to the card. In the same sense, if a creature spell is countered and the ability says "when ~~ enters play..." the effect would still happen. Once triggered, you would have to counter an activated ability.[/QUOTE]

That's not true. "Enters the battlefield" effects only trigger if the creature spell resolves. Countering the spell would prevent the spell from resolving. A creature spell doesn't enter the battlefield. It goes on the stack. At that time, each player has an opportunity to respond to it. After all responses have resolved, if the creature spell was not countered then it becomes a creature and enters the battlefield at which point any appropriate "enters the battlefield" effects would trigger.

[QUOTE]As Seth clarified, mana abilities don't use the stack. That was my mistake. Since they don't use the stack, you can't respond to them. Since you can't respond to them, destroying the Myrs won't prevent the mana production. You can destroy them before he taps them for mana, but then he can just tap them for mana when your destruction effect goes on the stack. You can destroy them after they're tapped for mana, but he's already gotten the mana by that time.

Either way, he gets the mana. [/QUOTE]

so can you tap a land as a counter to your opponent tapping it for mana?
this has come up a few times for me with Vedalken Certarch.

You can put the tap ability on the stack, but it won't stop the land from producing mana at that time.

If you were to put the tap ability on the stack before the land is tapped for mana, the opponent could tap the land for mana while the tap ability is on the stack so when the tap ability resolves, the land is already tapped and has produced mana.

If you were to put the tap ability on the stack after the land is tapped for mana then it would effectively do nothing since, by that time, the land is already tapped and has already produced mana.

To tap land in order to make it useless for a turn/round, you would need to use the tap ability before the player's precombat main phase such as during his draw step or upkeep. He/she could still tap it for mana to throw instants, but if he/she doesn't then the mana will empty from his/her mana pool at the end of the step so it won't be available during his/her main phases.

[QUOTE=randombum]so can you tap a land as a counter to your opponent tapping it for mana?
this has come up a few times for me with Vedalken Certarch.[/QUOTE]

No never. You should learn what Priority is and how the stack works

read: http://mtgsalvation.com/794-priority-and-the-stack.html

And like I said before, you can't respond to mana abilities, priority isn't passed on to you when someone taps something for mana and without priority you are not allowed to do anything.

[QUOTE=Seth]No never. You should learn what Priority is and how the stack works

read: http://mtgsalvation.com/794-priority-and-the-stack.htm[/QUOTE]

The link gives a 404 error.

fixed it, sorry about that

Wow, thanks Seth, that clears a whole lot up.

Yeah it does. You would be surprised how many players don't know what priority is and think they can play instants and abilities any time they please. If you stick to the rules like explained in the article a lot of confusing situations are avoided.

There will always be a difference between casual play and tournament play in the way that you don't constantly go though the verbal effort of passing priority when playing casual magic. In tournament play, especially legacy, this becomes really important however. The outcome of games is often determined by how end when one responds to stuff being resolved on the stack.