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This deck is a poor attempt at an Overrun deck. Where is the Mana acceleration to Cast Overrun on Turn three (3) or Turn four (4)? You need three Green (:manag::manag::manag:) Mana to Cast Overrun, and Avacyn's Pilgrim only gives you one White (:manaw:) Mana.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=240315&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=221896&type=card

Elite Vanguard is a vanilla Creature. It does nothing for you, beyond being an early aggressive one Mana (:mana1:) drop. Birds of Paradise, however, allows you to Cast Overrun one Turn earlier.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=212241&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=245250&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=245251&type=card

None of these Planeswalkers actually helps out your themes. I think you just put them in because they are in your colors.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=213728&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=233231&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=236907&type=card

These cards will help you reach Overrun faster. Viridian Emissary, or Solemn Simulacrum, and Caravan Vigil also make a good combination.

Well I agree about the birds, but in a weenie deck trying to get out a number of guys to use overrun with, Elspeth and Garruk are tops, Garruk being able to tutor, and Elspeth spitting out 3 dudes (which get the tribal benefit) are insane. If you are running white with a focus on getting out a lot of dudes, Elspeth is absolutely required.

Garruk is less necessary in some ways, but he acts as a swiss army knife, basically working as a form of removal, while spitting out dudes and providing another overrun ability, all for 4 mana is the nuts.

What it seems like to me is that you are trying to push for more of a wolf run GW deck, which this deck doesn't want to be.

The deck is not Wolf Run. It's missing key cards, like Primeval Titan and Kessig Wolf Run, that would make it Wolf Run. Your comment shows how much you know about Magic: The Gathering. What my suggestions are trying to do to your deck is to give it some Mana ramp, a strategy named after the card Rampant Growth, which has been a part of the game since Mirage in 1996 way before Wolf Run existed.

It's probably the most iconic strategy of Green Mana (:manag:) decks. A lot of Creatures, or Spells such as Overrun, have a high Mana Cost in this color. Using cards like Rampant Growth to gain an extra Land per turn, or Birds of Paradise for Mana acceleration, allows you to play things earlier.

Turn one (1): Play a Land, Birds of Paradise = You have 2 Mana.
Turn two (2): Play a Land, Rampant Growth = You have 4 Mana.
Turn three (3): Play a Land = You have 5 Mana.

The Wolf Run deck takes advantage of this strategy, because Primeval Titan is a high, six Mana (:mana6:) Cost Creature. But, that doesn't mean other decks cannot take advantage of the same strategy to get something else with a heavy Mana Cost out, like Overrun.

I'm quite aware of the point of ramp decks, what i was implying was you were trying to take my standard deck, modeled roughly after a couple of states winners and GP winners (Martin Juza won GP Hiroshima with an overrun deck using only ramp provided by creatures, and not viridian emissary) and turn it into a ramp focused deck, which I am not going for.

In fact, ramp doesn't do much for overrun, since the mana is better spent on creatures than ramp. A turn 3 overrun would maybe allow 2 of my creatures to get the +3/+3 benefit. Instead, if I go for the turn 5 overrun after casting a hero of bladehold and an automated automaton would allow for lethal damage trampled, which few decks short of removal would be able to stop.

What I was more curious about was the synergy between the GW tribal and the GW overrun theme. They are both very similar decks, except that the overrun seemed to focus more on 2 for one creatures and the Humans seemed to focus on tempo.

Your deck is good because it's a copy of Martin Juza's? That's not a very compelling argument. If your deck didn't need any help you wouldn't have posted it here, unless you are just trying to show off your net-decking skills.

The ramp is not only good for Overrun, you can also use it to fish out Plains for the heavy two White Mana (:manaw::manaw:) Cost of Elspeth Tirel, or to play Garruk Relentless a Turn earlier. What about a Turn three (3) Mikaeus, the Lunarch as a 4/4 Creature for one Mana (:mana1:)?

The reason Martin Juza probably didn't run any ramp is because he had four copies (4) of Razorverge Thicket in the deck. Which means he didn't need to run as many Basic Land as you are. He could even get away with running less Plains than you, despite the fact that most of his Creatures needed two White Mana (:manaw::manaw:).

If you are going to challenge me on the Mana ramp, then you'll need to put in Razorverge Thicket. Also, in this Standard environment, if you wait until after Turn five (5) to Overrun, you'll most likely already be dead. Except, maybe, if you're facing U/B Control, in which case they will just Counter your Overrun by then.

Hmm, while it seems that you challenge my reference to Juza, attempting to call it "showing off my netdecking skills" shows that I didn't convey my earlier point well enough; I merely was attempting to show that one doesn't need heavy ramp to run a successful overrun deck.

In this format, turn 5 kills tend to be relatively rare since the format has slowed down, and with this slower format, even aggro decks tend to wait till turn 6 or 7 to turn on. Wolf run ramp (the top deck in the format), for instance, won't be pushing for lethal most times until turn 7 (unless the godhand allows for a turn 5 lethal, which is possible with this deck as well).

This deck focuses less on card advantage (which for green means ramp) and focuses more on tempo, keeping the pressure on each turn until I can force a final push with an overrun or a hero of bladehold. Each of my draw wants to be focused relatively on offense, or stopping my opponent from holding me back (which is what the oblivion ring is for).

Suppose for a second that you were right, and this deck would be best with ramp. Well then it would follow that I would want to put the cards that would maximize my ramp into the deck. This means that cards (as you said Solemn Simulacrum and Viridian Emissary). The best ramp card would (of course) be primeval titan, because he grabs 2 of any land and puts it into play, all on a huge body. Well with the other ramp cards, it would be really easy to get him out turn 4 or so, meaning that he would fit perfectly into the deck.

Well then from there, it would make sense that to maximize the use of this, I would want to add in some mana sink that I could use to help win me the game more quickly. Gavony Township wouldn't be able to fit that role, since for 5 mana, he buffs my creatures, but I can't sink any more than 5 mana per activation, and if I am grabbing more lands, it would make sense to want to sink more than 5 mana on a buff if need be (to maximize the ramp that you stress is so important). Instead the better land for my mana-sink would be the other land, Kessig Wolf Run. This of course would mean that i would want to change my mana base to red, and to top it off, let's throw in a potentially instant-win with the rediculously powerful inkmoth nexus.

This above is the logical thought process that led me to believe that you are suggesting me change my build into some sort of sub-par Wolf Run deck, instead of a true tempo-based aggro tribal deck. The focus of the decks are completely different as I've stated before, as well as the philosophy behind them.

Now, I will say that you offer a great suggestion on the use of Razorverge Thicket, and if you had offered that suggestion, rather than attacking the entire theme of the deck, we would have saved all this debate. I thought i could get away with running the deck without the expensive land, but you do argue a good point about mana control. Only playtests will show how hindered I am without it.

Now the help that I did ask for was more for sideboard help, since I am not sure about what good sideboard options people think would work to really sharpen this deck (save from the obvious: Naturalize, Nihil Spellbomb, Tree of Redemption, etc...).

I don't play a lot of Green Mana (:manag:) decks yet, but in my White Mana (:manaw:) deck I really like having these cards in my sideboard.

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=194123&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=220195&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=247425&type=card