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Yeah, those +1/+1 counters are gone long before modular would trigger. There's nothing to give away sadly.

[QUOTE=NightLoki]Yeah, those +1/+1 counters are gone long before modular would trigger. There's nothing to give away sadly.[/QUOTE]

awesome thank you so much that should shut my buddy up lol

The counters are still there that never leave unless you can remove them. I had a take with wizards about counters before. It's a creature with a +1/+1 a -1/-1 counter.

[QUOTE=bossman001412]The counters are still there that never leave unless you can remove them. I had a take with wizards about counters before. It's a creature with a +1/+1 a -1/-1 counter.[/QUOTE]

creatures can't have both +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on them, they cancel eachother out

This is why you don't run Arcbound without 4x Arcbound Ravagers ;)

Also, Seth is correct. +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out. The same is true for +1/+0 and -1/-0 counters, +0/+1 and -0/-1 counters, etc., but only for +/- counters of the same variety (so a +1/+1 and -0/-1 counter would not negate each other).

Basic math;)

Actually Savaj, +1/+0 and -1/-0 don't cancel each other out, they're still two different counters on the same card. The canceling rule only applies to +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters. It's weird, but it's how Wizards decided to work it.

Really? Huh.. I could have sworn I read it was officially "+/- counters of the same type cancel each other out" or something like that.

Thinking about all the different varieties of counters I've seen, I guess they opted for the even easier road out? Speaking of varieties.. I still have to build a deck to proliferate Living Armor...

[QUOTE=SavajCabbaj]I still have to build a deck to proliferate Living Armor...[/QUOTE]

They changed the ruling on living armor, it is now X +0/+1 counters. If you check it on the gatherer, that is what it says.

so call me dumb, but can someone explain to me how a creature then with a +1/-0 and a -1/+0 works then? I can't grasp it and its driving me crazy!! sorry if i seem sarcastic about it, trust me, i am not trying to be. It just baffles me that wizards made it to where they don't cancel out...

@truegrave18:
It works like this (assuming NightLoki is right, and he usually is):

+1/+1 and -1/-1 counters negate each other.
So if a creature with 4x +1/+1 counters on it is given 2x -1/-1 counters, the creature does not gain any -1/-1 counters but instead removes 2x +1/+1 counters

All other counters stack.
So if a creature with 4x +1/+0 counters on it is given 2x -1/-0 counters, the creature keeps his 4x +1/+0 counters and gains 2x -1/-0 counters

@sethbodine:
Sometimes I love card erratas, sometimes I hate them >.< After they began giving creatures a "race" and "class" creature type, errata-ing older single type creatures was a great move. I like that. They've also updated wording to work with the latest incarnation of the rules. I like that too. It's just annoying when the changes catch you by surprise, I guess :P Oh well, so much for giving DoDG +0/+9, proliferating, switching his p/t, and swinging for 27 damage on the third turn :P

[QUOTE=SavajCabbaj]@truegrave18:
It works like this (assuming NightLoki is right, and he usually is):
[/QUOTE]

This sentence made me smile. I am way too conceited. Anyways, yeah, it works exactly like that unless you want to go into when those things happen (state-based effects, blah blah) which I don't, so that works.

[QUOTE=SavajCabbaj]@truegrave18:
It works like this (assuming NightLoki is right, and he usually is):

+1/+1 and -1/-1 counters negate each other.
So if a creature with 4x +1/+1 counters on it is given 2x -1/-1 counters, the creature does not gain any -1/-1 counters but instead removes 2x +1/+1 counters

All other counters stack.
So if a creature with 4x +1/+0 counters on it is given 2x -1/-0 counters, the creature keeps his 4x +1/+0 counters and gains 2x -1/-0 counters

@sethbodine:
Sometimes I love card erratas, sometimes I hate them >.< After they began giving creatures a "race" and "class" creature type, errata-ing older single type creatures was a great move. I like that. They've also updated wording to work with the latest incarnation of the rules. I like that too. It's just annoying when the changes catch you by surprise, I guess :P Oh well, so much for giving DoDG +0/+9, proliferating, switching his p/t, and swinging for 27 damage on the third turn :P[/QUOTE]

ok cool, that I understand. Thats actually how i've been playing with counters...however, with that setting, does not a creature with 2x +1/+0 and 2x -1/-0 revert back to its original x/x? As in, they still have the counters, but because of their values, it goes back to their original power and toughness unless either of the counter sets is removed?

Sorry, im just trying to understand completely.

In a word, yes/ 1+1=2, -1-1=-2, 2-2=0, so, while they are there, they don't do anything unless you proliferate or something.

Sorry thay change the counters rule and I didn't know that. Back in shadowmoor when percist was out the counters where still on the creature. So sorry again for the first post.

[QUOTE=victoria11]I just wish they had a different story. Our view would be from a Phyrexian spy ship that travels through the light of plans for Weatherford, but in reverse order. In this way, we could have things without destroying Mirrodin.[/QUOTE]

That's very insightful, and I have to say I agree :)