Discussion Forum

Naturalize should be Nature's Claim. There's no reason to run Naturalize in an infect deck.

more lame suggestions, im aiming to kill them by life total OR poison why give them life if im not doing poison ONLY.

Sorry, I forgot that you were running the absolutely terrible Mycosynth Fiend despite everyone telling you how bad the card is.

As everyone has been telling you on the other forum, if you could ever post some wins at anything with this deck, it would be taken seriously. Until then the Fiend is strictly a casual only card, and will not be winning anything for you.

More Pump Spells!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=TheRabbit]Sorry, I forgot that you were running the absolutely terrible Mycosynth Fiend despite everyone telling you how bad the card is.

As everyone has been telling you on the other forum, if you could ever post some wins at anything with this deck, it would be taken seriously. Until then the Fiend is strictly a casual only card, and will not be winning anything for you.[/QUOTE]

If your going to act like you know what your talking about then come with suggestions after actually reading the deck list

Im not trying to build a deck that has fringe wins, post when I get lucky and claim viability. im going for consistency and not dumb stuff like all in pump

thanks eol! sorry rabbit but he has a point. you did the same thing to my infect deck that i posted. It was like you don't even put thought into what other people may be thinking with their decks, or even ask questions....you just flame and give negative feedback as if nobody else can build an infect deck. try being more constructive and give useful feedback other than, "i don't know why you have this card, its dumb"

not cool

Ease up guys, TheRabbit reply was not out of line at all. Playing a 1CC spell versus a 2CC spell is a huge deal and in a deck where you can easily get away with the downside it's just hard to justify not playing the cheaper spell.

[QUOTE=Seth]Ease up guys, TheRabbit reply was not out of line at all. Playing a 1CC spell versus a 2CC spell is a huge deal and in a deck where you can easily get away with the downside it's just hard to justify not playing the cheaper spell.[/QUOTE]

sorry, im still a bit upset with his response to my deck as well. when you break it down the way you did, it makes sense as well as gives off a constructive view point. but when you belittle someone for their deck without giving input, it kinda comes off the wrong way.

http://forums.mtgvault.com/showthread.php?t=4610

i see now he didn't mean no harm by it, but when you read it, he has no input on what he would do different. Nor does he take the time to actually ask what the purpose of certain cards are in a deck like some of the other members do.

Form an outsiders point of view it may seem harsh but this is something that started on another magic board, he only has one view of how to play infect and does not want to ackowledge any other view points, its not surprising to see him post nonsense about the very same deck hes been discussing over at mtgsalvation. My user name is even the same here

There is critism and there is elitism and he only offers the latter

[QUOTE=eol]Form an outsiders point of view it may seem harsh but this is something that started on another magic board, he only has one view of how to play infect and does not want to ackowledge any other view points, its not surprising to see him post nonsense about the very same deck hes been discussing over at mtgsalvation. My user name is even the same here

There is critism and there is elitism and he only offers the latter[/QUOTE]

well it seemed harsh to me when he posted on my deck in these forums. just like you, i was trying to build a deck that isn't full of pumps and hopes of drawing the God Hand that everyone needs in the typical infect deck. and because it didn't have a slew of pumps or some kind of proliferate, it was shot down by him...which is fine, if he would have had some useful insight.

[QUOTE=truegrave18]http://forums.mtgvault.com/showthread.php?t=4610

i see now he didn't mean no harm by it, but when you read it, he has no input on what he would do different. Nor does he take the time to actually ask what the purpose of certain cards are in a deck like some of the other members do.[/QUOTE]

Sorry if my reply to eol seemed short, but as I alluded to, we just finished a 3 page discussion about his deck on the other forum. He didn't like the helpful advice and analysis that he got over there, so he posted it here, ignoring all the comments that he received.

Here was the breakdown:
Mycosynth Fiend.
2 poison counters. Kills player in 5 turns.
3 poison counters. Kills player in 4 turns.
4 poison counters. Kills player in 4 turns.
5 poison counters. Kills player in 3 turns.
6 poison counters. Kills player in 3 turns.
7 poison counters. Kills player in 3 turns.
8 poison counters. Kills player in 2 turns.
9 poison counters. Kills player in 2 turns.

Vanilla 2/2 infect creature.
2 poison counters. Kills player in 4 turns.
3 poison counters. Kills player in 4 turns.
4 poison counters. Kills player in 3 turns.
5 poison counters. Kills player in 3 turns.
6 poison counters. Kills player in 2 turns.
7 poison counters. Kills player in 2 turns.
8 poison counters. Kills player in 1 turn.
9 poison counters. Kills player in 1 turn.

As you can see, you will kill a player faster with a vanilla 2/2 infect creature than you will with a Mycosynth Fiend for any combination of poison counters. Not to mention that any pump spells that you do have are doubly effectice on the infect creature compared to the non-infect.

There are perhaps some fringe benefits to be seen from running the Fiend. However, because he is a ground creature, and he is green, he can't block birds, he can't block swords, he can't block infinite Exarchs, and for the most part he can't profitably block Titans. Considering that those are the only major threats in standard, there isn't a lot he can help with.

There are a bunch of reasons to argue the point of not running Mycosynth Fiend and trying to kill people with regular damage in an infect deck (all points brought up in the previous thread).

Sorry that I didn't post all that before, but like I said, we just finished having this discussion with eol on the other forum

those numbers are completely meaningless if you dont know what the board state is like. not only that but they are using an ideal that is crafted under an arbitrary scenario that isnt representative of any likely out come. what vanilla 2/2 is going to get through for 5 turns consistently without being blocked or removed? i know of no such card please link me this magical card.

its definitely not phyrexian crusader, because he comes out turn 3 and is a primary hate target. maybe you mean contagious nim for 3 cmc who will be happily traded for? maybe rot wolf for 3cmc that will be happily traded for? or septic rats? of viridian corrupter? all these amazing 2/2 that dodge or wait they dont, but they come out fast oh wait they dont they are all 3 CMC.

i didnt realize that trading was considered a net gain in magic. i also didnt realize that weaker creatures are more threatening then stronger creatures.

in short the numbers that were posted WILL NEVER HAPPEN

if your flyers will get blocked then myco is clearly a winner. if they are not then you can use him to hold off ground creatures.


at best if the numbers were based off the flyers it would make sense. (that is if they dont get removed or TRADED) i didnt know that stingers had 4 lives and could eat so many squadron hawks.

if i only have a 1/1 it would take me 10 turns to win the game at turn 5 it would take myco 4 turns to win the game starting from turn 6, i wonder if he managed to kill anything since t3 when he came out. he could be anywhere from a 5/5 to a 7/7 at t3 by t5 he might even be a 9/9 anything better then that and youve won before t5 congrats you got a god hand.

turn 5 with only a 1/1 and five poison counters

turns to win:
infect 5 turns, myco 4 turns 20-5
infect 4 turns, myco 3 turns 15-6
infect 3 turns, myco 1 turn 9-7

this is whats called damage scaling.

if i have more infect on the board and i wasnt spot removed, wiped or traded i will just cast more infect and win. if i lost all my infect due to the reasons i just listed, i wont have to worry about defending with a 2/2 while they pop a 5/4 creature land or some other large beastie after reset, because i can respond with a myco and their attempt to reset will come to a halt.

myco is a defensive and board state recovery creature, if you do not want to understand that then you will never learn how to craft a deck other then some cookie cutter deck you read about on the forums.

[QUOTE]There are perhaps some fringe benefits to be seen from running the Fiend. However, because he is a ground creature, and he is green, he can't block birds, he can't block swords, he can't block infinite Exarchs, and for the most part he can't profitably block Titans. Considering that those are the only major threats in standard, there isn't a lot he can help with.[/QUOTE]

there are REAL benefits if you know how to pilot the deck correctly and build it against the appropriate match ups.

the fact that you think green needs to deal with birds,extract using creatures shows just how ignorant and arrogant you really are green has artifact and enchantment removal cards such as the one you tried to recommend me, in fact it has 9 different standard legal cards, only 2 of which are creatures.

also you are wrong about not being able to deal with titans. at 5 poison which is perhaps the earliest point a titan can come out, he can kill them and LIVE

lets not forget, with the correct cards and color choices, you can swing through regardless. for instance, splash blue in. distortion strike gives you a pump, unblockable and rebound. Also, you can throw in support creatures with the special abilities. i.e. Neurok Invisimancer.

when i posted my deck, i was simply stating that not EVERY infect deck has to be pump pump pump. yes, i understand that, that is what has been working....but i don't know where you play at that infect is thriving as much, but for my location and the meta game in my area, it doesn't last...trust me. The idea of building an infect deck to end game by turn 5 is pure luck of draw. it is, you have to admit it. Sure, it happens, but how consistently? And please don't tell me that it is very consistent, or you have a turn 4 win infect that wins 9/10 or anything like that....because i have tried to build it, i have built the ones that claimed this, and have found net decks with high ratings that claim the same thing....its not true, it boils down to the luck of the draw which is why when i posted my deck, i took out the mass amounts of pumps, switched my creatures to artifacts, and left it to tempered steel for my pumps. you take that, and now with the open slots for some control cards, you can create something that is capable of being consistent. Again, it is luck of the draw, but i promise you this; the odds of me getting 1 creature out, and having either a tempered steel or atleast a couple of control cards in my hand is more likely then opening a game with a plague stinger, 2 giant growths, and a groundswell...or whatever combination.

honestly, i can't stand infect. it was a fabulous idea when it came out mainstream but, it was just that; an idea. it is so easy to prevent it from working properly.

QFT truegrave

im really getting tired of the crowd that thinks control evasion is some how more consistent and isnt just as consistent as pump to win which is easily counterable. guess what spellskites can steal your distortion strike your tumble magnets and your removal, thats before you even think about dealing with their squad hawks etc.

now considering that fact you are now running a deck with half the creature base and no damage acceleration, how is this an improvement? go ahead and into the roil that spellskite feels good man? can someone remind me how U/B does when the board gets wiped?

[QUOTE=eol]the fact that you think green needs to deal with birds,extract using creatures shows just how ignorant and arrogant you really are green has artifact and enchantment removal cards such as the one you tried to recommend me, in fact it has 9 different standard legal cards, only 2 of which are creatures.[/quote]Most of your post seems like a flaming rant, so I'm going to go ahead and back away from this thread before you bait me any further. I just have 1 thing I'd like to point out:
[Quote]also you are wrong about not being able to deal with titans. at 5 poison which is perhaps the earliest point a titan can come out, he can kill them and LIVE[/QUOTE]Inferno Titan kills Fiend. Grave Titan kills Fiend. Frost Titan taps Fiend. Sun Titan returns 2 permanents before dieing. Primeval Titan drops 4 lands before dieing. None of those trades (Except Inferno Titan, that is a good trade) are favorable for you.

As I said, I'm done with this thread. You asked for me to defend my position on the card changes I suggested, and I did so in a clear and concise manner. My reply was met with a rambling post that flamed me left and right. You obviously don't want to listen to reason or experience regarding your deck build, and instead want to rant about how you alone can see the value of Mycosynth Fiend and attacking people with both infect and life in a single deck.

If you can post some wins at anything, an MTGO daily, a Magic-League trial, anything that is verifiable, I will be one of the first people to congratulate you on the wins. In the mean time my infect deck is racking up wins at the above events, despite how "inconsistant" it is.

Enjoy your thread gentlemen.

[QUOTE=eol]QFT truegrave

im really getting tired of the crowd that thinks control evasion is some how more consistent and isnt just as consistent as pump to win which is easily counterable. guess what spellskites can steal your distortion strike your tumble magnets and your removal, thats before you even think about dealing with their squad hawks etc.

now considering that fact you are now running a deck with half the creature base and no damage acceleration, how is this an improvement? go ahead and into the roil that spellskite feels good man? can someone remind me how U/B does when the board gets wiped?[/QUOTE]

im going to assume that QFT means quit F**** talking.....way to snap at someone for simply agreeing with you in the sense that their is nothing wrong with trying something other than full on pump. but that's cool, you can be the big tough guy of the forums:)

it means quoted for truth lol, you have it right why would i yell at you for agreeing with me?

lol and by the way, you pointed it out, into the roil spellskite....i'll into the roil, unsummon, and cancel/stoic rebuttal/geth's verdict it all day LONG...so yes, control is very powerful and much, MUCH more consistent.

thanks for playing


-----disregard what i said. im not savvy on forum lingo lol so sorry i snapped back i honestly was just trying to help.

[QUOTE=eol]it means quoted for truth lol, you have it right why would i yell at you for agreeing with me?[/QUOTE]

:( sorry im embarrassed now for snapping back. im really dumb when it comes to lingo online lol

its ok, just for future purposes try urban dictionary next time your unsure about something.

[QUOTE=eol]its ok, just for future purposes try urban dictionary next time your unsure about something.[/QUOTE]

got it, even saved a link to my desktop lol

Inferno Titan kills Fiend.
how does a 6/6 kill a 7/7? it cant use its proc and attack at the same time. if you mean they would cast a spell and use titan i would consider that a fair trade.

Grave Titan kills Fiend.
ok it has deathtouch. they can run 2 at most i will run 4 myco, i can also spot remove it, if i dont have a response such as being able to trade or remove or tumble magnet or black sun zenith it then ive probably lost the game anyway. either way they wont be able to build up too many tokens.


Frost Titan taps Fiend.
once again i would not only rely on myco

Sun Titan returns 2 permanents before dieing.
big deal does he have board dominance or do i?

Primeval Titan drops 4 lands before dieing.
ok so they have land ramp to cast what? another titan, they have enough mana to pretty much drop anything at that point anway, why bother mentioning this particular titan

None of those trades (Except Inferno Titan, that is a good trade) are favorable for you.

maybe they arent favorable but they are much better then losing everything i have trying to fend off a card until i eventually lose.

why is myco now, the BE ALL END ALL CARD? since when did i say hes the penultimate solution to all of infects problems. the reason im running him is because im trying to extend infects viability by extending its options from early to mid game success, not late game. before myco 2 color infect HAD NO MID GAME

not every deck is built to have continuous advantage at all stages of the game.

even then without mycos a titan is pretty much a guaranteed win, with myco i still have a chance.


As I said, I'm done with this thread. You asked for me to defend my position on the card changes I suggested, and I did so in a clear and concise manner

you didnt defend anything first you dismissed the deck without any actual forethought, then you parroted the statements of another user who actually happens to also be incorrect in his assertions, and for the record you did not actually suggest a single card to me while having actually looked at the deck