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Since you are already running Melira, Black Sun Zenith is awesome removal.

do you think 2 will be enough?

Mutagenic is a must when Glistener Elf in play. Here's my B/G Infector that has potential T2 kill but very consistent turn 3 or 4 win as well.
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=177895

I see your point, now what to drop? Do I get rid of vines of vastwood or something else?

i dont think you guys are going to get very good results going the old pump to win approach, this is what im bringing to my FNM i think it has a much stronger chance of beating the T1 decks.

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=178252

Actually so far I AM getting very good results at local tournies :) But that's what sideboards are for

my local FNM practically is a tourni every week people are bringing B/R vamps, caw blade, etc.

i dont know what the meta is like at your tourni but your only going to win a small amount of games when your draws are hot. the rest of the time your going to flat out struggle to stuff like gideons, DoJ etc.

i tried the pump to win approach pre NPH and i only won half the games the deck was just not consistent not fast enough to get damage past alot of the match ups. the decks here are running the same set up if you think your going to win because your sacking life now for faster pumps your really just killing yourself faster as well.

all i see here is ppl building decks around "god hand" and those dont win tournaments. there are no response cards for half the match ups in the current meta. i seriously suggest you guys play test this more.

Yeah no crap pre-NPH infect was too slow. That's where Glistener Elf became such a beast. Plus my sideboard right now can take care of Gideon AND DoJ thanks to Beast Within and Corrupted Resolve. Trust me, I know a lot of people tried fast infect and gave up in Beiseged tournies, but once NPH came back out, I knew it would be a force to be reckoned with because it simply became faster and was able to generate a LOT more control. And like I said, the turn2 is a god-hand, but you'd be extremely surprised to see how often i get a turn 4, if not 3, kill.

except the deck you linked does not have beast within or corrupted resolve in either MB or SB, actually it doesnt have any control no spot removal, board sweepers,or discard. the only thing it has is another sac outlet free counter spell to die faster, at this point im going to say we are talking about two different decks.

concerning speed we did have inkmoth nexus which early game is almost as fast as a glistener. so speed wise i dont think infect has gotten faster, with inkmoth you cant pump tell t3, with glistener you can pump t2 but you can also be chump blocked or counter spelled.

i used to have high hopes for infect as well, so i understand where you are going with this....and by that i mean, there is nowhere else to go with infect..you HAVE TO HAVE pump spells for it to work. It is the only way to turn out a t2,t3, t4 victory. Even though they came out with a 1 drop infect, it doesn't mean it is going to turn it around for infect, sadly....here's and example as to why, just for starters:

you: t1 = forest, glistener elf.............EOT response, Mental Misstep...bye bye elf, or any creature with infect

opponent: t1 = land, hex parasite (so you ended up left open and now your opponent has a creature to remove any counters you have on him)

with being able to pay life for some cards (i.e. above of mental misstep), infect truly has even more ground to cover in terms of control..

so, aside from mental misstep which can throw your whole plan out of whack, you also have a few other cheap control cards that can hurt you. i.e. due respect. They summon that at the beginning of your turn and now you are rendered helpless your next turn regardless of how many guys you can pump out. or, your t3/t4 victory; lets use this scenario:

you: glistener elf (or any creature), you declare attacks.. i say "ok, go for it" and you pump him to 10+ infect for the win....but wait, not so fast:

your opponent lets you stack so your creature will be powerful enough to end the game, and then hits you with act of aggression...guess what? thats 10+ poison to you now assuming you didn't spend your pump mana on creatures and saved them for the pump.

so i know i rambled on about this but, the point is, infect may very well one day see its place in the top 8 of a PT or GP but, it won't be with any of the current sets. especially with the new control that has come out that lets you splash any color into a deck without having to worry about paying its mana cost.

Forget all that, t2 spellskite. Steals all your pumps. 1 card killed pump to win, if your not running enough control you have no chance to win with infect

exactly. that was much shorter than what i said lol so yeah, infect in itself, is useless...unless you are playing a bunch of noobies who threw a deck together to play for their first time. its a tough type to run with with way, WAY to many oppositions.

spellskite is going to be in every deck so you better do something other then go for those t2+ pumps.

its in splinter twin
its in caw blade
i wouldnt be surprised to see it in some U/x infect decks to steal pumps from other infect decks.

if there is a space for it this card is going to find its way into a deck.

tldr, last seasons strategy is not going to work this season.

Lots of commets, that's always good. So in regards to my deck I should...

cut some stuff add some stuff, you have stuff in there thats not going to help you, while your missing stuff that is. if you want to have cards that will give you tools to deal with spellskites, gideons, splintertwin, and other stuff being run in T1 decks i suggest you look at my deck and compare it to yours

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=178252

ok, tried to address some of the things you guys said. What do you think now?

its better but it still needs more work, beast within is not a good card for this deck, stick to using despise/naturalize for planeswalkers/splintertwin.

also i would run some other spot removal instead of dismember, spellskites will eat those. you want to SB it and use go for the throat, or maybe just take it out entirely as paying 4 life is not worth it for early removal, just have doom blades in SB instead if you need to hit artifacts.

also you may want to add verdant catacombs to your mana base instead of swamp/forest it will speed up your deck by color fixing. and it will also thin it increasing the chances to draw something you need.

also garruk isnt worth it, hes not going to pump more then 1 or 2 creatures at a time as infect cards do not have staying power on the board because of low toughness. you much better off running skithrix in his place

from the way your trying to build your deck your not really using the black properly it seems to me you want to be more green, you might be happier just playing mono green infect.

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=189006

i just threw this together...just another idea for infect that takes into consideration making it past t5 as opposed to t3/t4 wins that are usually required for infect.

You realize that Hex Parasite can't remove poison counters, right? Just like Vampire Hexmage couldn't either.

Yes, spellskite made it much more difficult to pump to win, especially if your opponent drops one on turn 2. That is why I run Dismember and Beast Within mainboard.

Garruk is a great option. He comes out on T4, and then untaps 2 lands allowing you to play out something else. And his ultimate will win you games, and can't be stolen by spellskite.

[QUOTE=TheRabbit]You realize that Hex Parasite can't remove poison counters, right? Just like Vampire Hexmage couldn't either.

Yes, spellskite made it much more difficult to pump to win, especially if your opponent drops one on turn 2. That is why I run Dismember and Beast Within mainboard.

Garruk is a great option. He comes out on T4, and then untaps 2 lands allowing you to play out something else. And his ultimate will win you games, and can't be stolen by spellskite.[/QUOTE]

unlike hexmage, hex parasite is from a new set with new rules. Im at work so i can't look up the rules to the cards from NPH but im almost certain that Hex Parasite was the solution to the poison counters that everyone was talking about before NPH was released.

not arguing but again, there was no solution to removing poison counters before NPH so the ruling might be different from vampire hexmage to hex parasite.

Ok, make sure you post in here when you find that ruling, I would be most interested.

Hex Parasite can not remove poison counters. The text reads "Remove up to X counters from target permanent." As the poison counters are attached to the player they are not attached to a permanent.

[QUOTE=Esdraleon]Hex Parasite can not remove poison counters. The text reads "Remove up to X counters from target permanent." As the poison counters are attached to the player they are not attached to a permanent.[/QUOTE]

as players, we are also considered perms.. just as plainswalkers are considered perms....thats why we are able to take damage and if you redirect from us to a plainswalker, they are able to take damage also. It won't let me onto wizards website from work (considered a gaming site) so i can't get to the official rulings. I have however found multiple forums that people are saying unlike hexmage, hp can remove poison counters...but again, im not 100% until i can actually see the official ruling on it from wizards website.

"That essentially means that if your opponent cast the Jace on turn four, you get to cast the Hex and for two life and three mana, kill the Jace. Hex Parasite needs to stay in your hand until something is put in play that he is capable of killing, as if you lose the element of surprise it won’t be effective.

Hex isn’t there only for planeswalkers, but it sure gets the biggest value out of them. You can remove those nasty poison counters from your creatures, or remove pesky charge counters out of Tumble magnet and all those unpleasant artifacts."

http://www.tcghell.com/2011/05/hex-parasite/

this one says you can remove poison from creatures, but again, this is the best i can do with the limited access i have to websites from work.

ok retract previous statement, you guys are right, you can't remove poison from a player. I found a loophole to get on wotc and it was cleared up on there. hex parasite can only remove counters (including poison) from creatures and perms, not the player.


sorry for taking so long to figure it out, but im more of a solid rules kinda guy instead of hear-say :)

I do believe that Melira, Sylvok Outcast was the infect killer people were talking about. Personally I find that she's too easy to remove from the table however, but I generally don't play infect either lol.

so anyone wanna check out any of my other decks and give me some feedback?