Discussion Forum

Couldn't really think of a good name for it but I was thinking of making it because Vengevine is an amazing card and in my opinion is worth $40 even though its sets of 4 that are going for that much.

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56430

Price information was a bit off above. I've fixed it now. Playsets are selling for $90 in auction now -- if they continue increasing in price at this rate, they will be in triple-digits in no time. So far, same price path as that guy Jace, the Mind Sculptor, the Win Condition, the Control Mage's Best Friend...

But why? I still don't see it. Vengevine looks to be quite a fun card, but the same price as Elspeth or Jace? That seems unjustified.

And dude: :manag: and :manar: go together like forest fire and marshmallows. :)

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56460

here we are. let the creatures come back... with a vengeance. BWAHAHAHAHHA ok bad pun. anyways, look.

Here's one I made. Most of the creatures are 1-2 mana cost, except for Vengevine, BBE, and Blitz Helion.
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56188

Use Violent Outburst to boost your guys and cascade a free 1-2cmc creature on the field. BBE for additional cascading, Vengevine for AWESOMENESS.

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56479

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56479

This is my attempt, have vengevine sacrifice himself with momentous fall, then summon a whole lot of creatures using a devoted druid equipped with deathrender to bring him back in a relentless assault together with beastmaster ascension

NOTE: first ever try at online deck building
1 yr rlf mtg player.
constructive critic hints tips etc welcomed and wanted.

-V

hehehe my vengence of vines
http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56507

These are neat and all, but in what tournament are these decks competitive? :confused:

I agree that these combos can be a great lot of fun to play -- all the decks so far seem like they'd be a blast to playtest, for kicks. But I don't see them being competitive in any tournament in which they'd be legal. :(

No fun casual card should ever cost more than $20 each. Ever. Heck, I would say no fun casual card should ever cost more than $20 for a playset... but $90 for a playset of a just-for-fun card is insane. Surely we all agree?

So I need some evidence, not just that Vengevine is a fun card. There's no argument here about that... but to justify the price we need to figure out how it wins us the tournamentses.

So: Make me a deck that will win me the May 1 Star City Games Standard Open. If I am able to assemble the deck you construct and I do so and crack the top-8 with it on May 1st 2010, I will give you one of the Vengevines from the deck.

If you jump in on this, great! Please add some comments that explain how a deck is competitive, either here or in your deck description.

Hmm sounds interesting, just one question what Type will that tornament be? Just to know to what cards we are restricted to use.

Ok I redid mine. It's a revamp of my Fueled Flames deck. same basic idea, fuel omnath and fire a comet storm when you have enough mana stocked.

Your choice: Standard or Legacy.

(announce which type you choose -- though we'll probably figure it out :))

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56637
There's it home in standard.

http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56599

this deck is essentially koros, but the red became green
knight of the rel. helps landfall a lot and i needed to play vengevine with ranger

vengevine with student of warfare, steppe lynx, knight of the rel. stoneforge, and other options is awesome

:manag: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56925

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57002

Standard

Left side deck incomplete on purpose. Plenty of cards to choose from most kinda situational. Figured u could fill in the remaining 11 side deck cards based on ur personal preference. Hex mage is alredy in side deck becuz of the new lvl up creatures have a good chance of popping up.

Feel free to switch out cards for ones u like better. u can change a lot to the deck and still keep the concept.

Can have Vengevine out on turn 2 with 2 swamp 1 mire 's toll 2 Guul Draz Vampire and Vengevine in starting hand.

P.S. i think some of these other decks dun work. i might be wrong but it says u gotta cast 2 creature spells. So wouldn't cards like Deathrender wich just put a creature into play not actually count as casting a creature spell?

To getting it out on turn two, you have to have the perfect hand and that happens very little, not a very consistant plot line.

I think alot of people just want it because it is a recurring threat that doesn't die at the end of the turn or get RFP. There has to be a way to almost break this card if it's going for that much though.

Me and a friend of mine actually had a talk about Vengevine the other day. We thought of the best possible scenarios for it. And one just kept popping back into our minds.

Mirror match Jund vs. Jund.

Third turn Player 1 plays a Blightning, classic play, usually disrupts the other players hand. Player 2 discards a Vengevine and a land. Turn 4, Player 2 plays his fourth land, plays BBE, cascades into Sprouting Thrinax, you get Vengevine out, and proceed to swing with your 3/2 and your 4/3. And you keep your 3/3 for defense next turn.

Ya, it made me happy too haha.

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57097

Theres the deck, it's basically a standard Jund but instead of Seige Gang and one Broodmate, there's some Vengevines.

sigh... how many times do I have to say it? Cascade doesn't work I am sorry. The second spell isn't cast, so it does not work for Vengevine. I know it makes the card less playable, but get over it. I am sorry if any hopes and dreams were crushed in this public service announcement.

I joined this forum just for this topic. I've been thinking about just how to make vengevine a good card... so I figured this might throw a curveball at some people out there :P

Here you are! Tell me what you think. Deck is for Standard play. :]
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57128

EDIT:
Okay let me elaborate here...
Of course, black for the obligatory discard feature. I figured I might try and help Megrim and Liliana get there (I know, I know.. hear me out!). I realize there are only FOUR Vengevines in this deck.. so if you don't draw one in your opening hand, why not just abuse the opponent with quick vamps and quick discarding? :D

Iono, I'm bored, and this was kinda fun to put together.

My standard Naya Vengevine

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57135

I posted a summary of my deck rational in the deck list. I started out with jund trying to bury venge early to bring him out from the grave but Naya ramp beatdown seemed to be a better method.

Cool contest. Vengevine will be a card many players will play decks around. I think he has an interesting future as great card and a wallet slayer.

@ whitey_mcfly

702.82a Cascade is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with cascade is on the stack. "Cascade" means "When you cast this spell, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card whose converted mana cost is less than this spell's converted mana cost. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all cards exiled from the game this way that weren't cast on the bottom of your library in a random order."

Ok, I seemed to have misunderstood what you wanted from deck contruction. You want reasoning why venge is worth 30 a pop? Well if 4/3 with Haste isn't enough the fact that he is meant to be a machine gun pushes him over the top.
I threw him into a Naya deck because the cheap creatures from R/W/G work the best to bring him back from the GY.

A typical starting hand for this deck.
1 Jungle Shrine, 1 Arid Mesa, 1 Goblin Guide, 1 Wild Nacatl, 1 Forest, 1 Bloodbraid Elf, and lastly Vengevine!

t1 play and crack the mesa to play the guide, swing 2 damage. 18
t2 draw a goblin bushwacker. play shrine, play wild nacatl, swing for another 2 damage. 16
t3 draw a forest, play a forest. swing with both, he blocks the cat but nothing for GG 14
t4 draw student of warfare. play venge, swing with both. venge gets bolted! and GG gets blocked/killed, 14
t5 draw a plains. play plains. play student of warfare, level him to 2, he is 3/3 fs. end turn 14
t6 draw mountain, play mtn, cast Bloodbraid -> Wooly Thoctar, venge comes back. Play a kicked Bushwacker all get +1/0 and haste swing for 4, 6, 5, 2 consider he has chumped 2 and he has only played 5 turns at most 3-4 creatures none very powerful this is either gg or his board is empty and he is very low.

Most opponents would scoop. You went from fast to stupid fast. This scenario is without a Birds for ramp. You could easily do this on t5.

Other silly possibilities for this deck. you have 5 land and 2 birds, you play BB to a student of warfare! Venge comes back. Level SoW, he is 3/3. Kick a bushwacker for 4, 6, 4, 2 With cascade into a creature which will almost always happen with this deck any cascade is absolutely brutal. You pay mana for 2 creatures, get 4 and swing with all of them on the same turn.

Silliness of this card^2, Scenario. Cast Venge and swing. He dies. Cast a one drop creature. He returns to block for you! And with a 4/3 he does a damn good job of it.

Will play games over the week to establish a turn by turn for how this fares against certain decks.

thanks for pointing out
cascade is you may CAST the second card without paying its mana cost
so it works
so... awesome.
when is this competition over?

It ain't over until it's over.

Nobody's convinced me to drop $90 on the vengevines and sleeve up for the May 1st SCGO, yet. I've yet to see a decklist which looks competitive across the field, and nobody's provided the information I'd need in order to be convinced to pay up and sleeve up. Particularly I'm looking for the standard turn-by-turn ten game test reports vs. Jund, Vampires, Lightsaber, and maybe a couple other latest top-8 Standard decks, preferably as well as the popular fringe decks like spread-'em.

I've proxy-sleeved the two most promising-looking decks so far, and run the tests myself; they lose (in the sense of winning fewer than 5 out of 10 matches) to the latest Lightsaber toolbox variants, to Jund, and to Vampires. Which is perfectly fine, don't get me wrong, the decks are fun -- and who knows, maybe I'm just misplaying them. However, without the insight or information I need in order to ensure it's reliably competitive, I'm not taking such a deck to a tournament that costs me a full day's wages to enter! :o

P.S. Yes, cascading from BBE into a creature will trigger Vengevine's ability, and it doesn't matter whether or not either creature spell is countered.

Huh. I see it's not possible to delete my own comments. (This comment used to be a duplicate of what I said above.)

well if its okay im guna enter a second deck
http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57280

a huge sideboard plan is included, and why
iv play tested it against jund and UW control, post board it wind about 65% against UW and 55% against jund, but my friends arent too good at playing UW control... I never lost with a resolved manabarbs
against jund its a toss up litterally been 5/5
post board it is much better at beating jund in the air, but thrinax can cause problems

the first deck i entered was more budget than this, but this is more viable
it is close to Naya lightsaber or boss naya together, without the stoneforge package.
it is expensive, but if you are looking for a deck that can utilize vengevine to its full potential and still be tournament quality, i think this is the best bet.

vengevine is the future...

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57281

here's my take 2. it's a simple bant weenie deck starring vengevine as the main attacker.

I plan to announce results this Friday on this thread.

I'm hoping to sleeve up for Standard on May 1st, but feeling increasingly skittish about it. I still need to put some more time into my Legacy research for May 2nd. (Current thoughts -- Stax and Tendrils received no substantial tech from Rise of the Eldrazi. I might want to change over to Land, which is a hard deck to pilot. But that's for another thread or something.)

We might extend this competition over to the next SCG Open, but I'm worried by then that the ideal Vengevine deck will already be broken & announced. Next week is really the chance for us to get a jump on everyone. It's a crazily busy week for me, but I'll sleeve up and test what I can...

[quote=Salient]I plan to announce results this Friday on this thread.

I'm hoping to sleeve up for Standard on May 1st, but feeling increasingly skittish about it. I still need to put some more time into my Legacy research for May 2nd. (Current thoughts -- Stax and Tendrils received no substantial tech from Rise of the Eldrazi. I might want to change over to Land, which is a hard deck to pilot. But that's for another thread or something.)

We might extend this competition over to the next SCG Open, but I'm worried by then that the ideal Vengevine deck will already be broken & announced. Next week is really the chance for us to get a jump on everyone. It's a crazily busy week for me, but I'll sleeve up and test what I can...[/quote]
Ill pry be in Columbus in August and Late July and I might run Lands. If you wanted help with it, ive been playing it alot lately so let me know.

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57559

Idk how legal this is but here u go.
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57595

Vengevine is stupid good, just put 3 in any of the top 8 jund builds and it will make the deck better.

Vengevine however is one of those typical cards that will only shine in standard and it will drop in price after it rotates. It's only worth buying if you play standard tournaments.

I think Vengevine's gonna work best in a GW or Naya-colored shell. Kor Skyfisher in particular makes it super-easy to bring it back. I don't think this card is the spicy 'build-around-me' card that many people thought it was, it's just the best meat and potatoes we've seen. I also agree with Seth that it's gonna be seen in Jund, whether it's more efficient in Jund or Naya remains to be seen (my money's on Naya though).

my notes against lightsaber are up now, Im going to try and play some other decks tonight after school. recked lightsaber post board

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56697

deck tested with boss naya it stands up

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57148

I need a second The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale if I'm going to run Land successfully, though.

A second Tabernacle in Stax (proxied) has made that deck considerably better, but it means I'll have to run Mishra's Factory, which I hate -- it means either removing stronger threats or removing Plains, and the deck's low enough on Plains as it is.

Also, Karakas is crazy good in Stax -- it bounces Gaddock Teeg. I'm thinking of running two.

---
Oops, forgot, this is the Vengevine thread. I should go find the Legacy chat thread if I'm going to go on about this.

[QUOTE=NightLoki]I don't think this card is the spicy 'build-around-me' card that many people thought it was, it's just the best meat and potatoes we've seen. I also agree with Seth that it's gonna be seen in Jund, whether it's more efficient in Jund or Naya remains to be seen (my money's on Naya though).[/QUOTE]
That sounds right to me.

[QUOTE=Salient]I need a second The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale if I'm going to run Land successfully, though.

A second Tabernacle in Stax (proxied) has made that deck considerably better, but it means I'll have to run Mishra's Factory, which I hate -- it means either removing stronger threats or removing Plains, and the deck's low enough on Plains as it is.

Also, Karakas is crazy good in Stax -- it bounces Gaddock Teeg. I'm thinking of running two.

---
Oops, forgot, this is the Vengevine thread. I should go find the Legacy chat thread if I'm going to go on about this.[/QUOTE]


We have a Legacy chat thread? Where?

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57856

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=57467

Weeds (G/W) - cause you can't kill them and they are annoying.

Here is my vengevine deck. Its G/W beatdown with anti-removal and many ways to push through damage. Heavily sideboarded against vampire decks.

Nest invader can give turn 3 venge
skyfisher can bounce and replay self to summon venge
ranger can pull 2 student to play venge
knot can attack solo to become huge
sigil blessing for blocking removal or to push damage
vines to push damage or to stop removal or both :)
emerge to stop removal or pass though blockers, plus get recast next turn from gy

sideboard in outlanders and Undead slayer against vamp. Protect with vines and emerge
silence agaist board removal. Gives almost a free turn

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=58004

Eldrazi Green splashed Red with Vengevine.

[QUOTE=NightLoki]We have a Legacy chat thread? Where?[/QUOTE]
Apparently we did not have such a thread. But we do now! :)

See here for the most epic Legacy chat thread there ever shall be.

...

The thread's foundation has been built lovingly from pure etherial WIN. Now to fill it up...

Vengevine in a Mono blue deck, mill myself to get in the graveyard then cast cheapies to bring them into play, with a distortion strike to make them +1 un-blockable.

PLEASE COMMENT! (I'M BRINGING THIS TO MY FIRST TOURNEY TOMORROW [insert nervous emoticon here] )

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=56969

so when are we going to see the results?

yesterday :)
or next friday

I'm bogged down in the middle of work duties, and can't go to the tournament -- haven't even had a chance to run my tests :(

So now I'm not sure when the competition ends, but I like that more folks are contributing their decks :)

Id also really like to know the results (mostly of your personal playtesting rather than who actually won here).

Further just wanted to say that my own experience with venge-proxies havent shown him to be that crazy except for some situations where hes the key to either outnumbering the other guys creatures or returning him vs jund (ye that makes him good and all but not the outstanding card he should be, right ?)

Another thing just for current Standard meta: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=58283. As explained in the decks description ive seen it posted a few times but this actually is the deck i would want to play @ my next FNMs and the one ive seen gideon do crazy stuff in ;). If some of u might wanna take a look and help me out with sideboard or any other card advice that'd be just awesome xD.

Vengevine will return to the playing field if you play Bloodbraid Elf and cascade into another creature (ie, Sprouting Thrinax). Official wording on casting:
"To cast a spell is to take it from the zone it's in (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. Casting a spell follows the steps listed below, in order. If, at any point during the casting of a spell, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the casting of the spell is illegal; the game returns to the moment before that spell started to be cast (see rule 714, “Handling Illegal Actions”). Announcements and payments can’t be altered after they’ve been made."
"Some effects still refer to “playing” a card. “Playing a card” means playing that card as a land or casting that card as a spell, whichever is appropriate."
Sorry, I don't know if this was cleared up before now, but the wording on Vengevine does not state that you have to cast creature spells from your hand in order to trigger its effect.

any update?

I like black white green with Vegevine, bloodghast, day of judgment. This is just fun ways to clean the board while bringing back your beat sticks to slap you opponent in the face. I know there is a ton of other cards and combos but this is the direction I would take.
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=60637

no results ever?

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=122482

vengevine is really a good card