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Non EDH question about odd numbers in decks.
I’ve been playing for about 25 years-ish, but only about 15 years ago did I start playing outside my group of friends. At that time I quickly concluded that efficiency was necessary in deck construction to succeed. I couldn’t just throw together whatever looked useful or good and expect to win. So at that time I began building decks with as little diversity as possible using 4 of everything and only dropping down to 2s for space reasons. If there was any card where only 1 was present it was either because I wanted to be Vintage legal or because that card was serving as essentially the 5th copy of another card.
But looking at others decks over the years, I see ALOT of decks that make a point of still spreading things out. They don’t look efficient at all and often have unnecessary abilities that would be trumped by having a full 4 of another card in their deck. This confuses me. I see lots of decks with many instances of 3 copies, and 1 copy. Something that has almost never worked for me.
Why is this? Why choose weaker cards on purpose, and why use odd numbers instead of even?
I do understand there are budget constraints and I understand rule restrictions but I frequently see this when neither are a concern.
SirKeks
3 posts
Posted 20 August 2021 at 17:56
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Muktol
1,767 posts
Giving an example deck would be helpful, as one could discuss numbers and strategy's and try to figure out what and why someone used the card x-times.
I can only answer this for myself, giving a general answer will be very hard, as each person builds deck differently...that is if you build decks yourself and don't copy&paste them. The main reason for me most of the time is versatility.
For example my pauper monoW Lifegain Deck
1 Icatian Crier vs 3 Battle Screech
I use 1 Icatian Crier and 3 Battle Screech. Battle Screech has flashback, so I don't need 4 of them in the deck, while Icatian Crier is a strong card that can convert unwanted cards (lands) into tokens, on matches that take longer. I never want to draw Icatian Crier on start, I don't even want to draw it on each game, because Battle Screech is the main card I want to use to produce tokens. If the Battle Screech wouldn't have flashback, I probably would have used it 4 times, and didn't add Icatian Crier.
2 Oblivion Ring vs 4 Recumbent Bliss (with 1 additional Oblivion Ring in the sideboard)
The split here results from Oblivion Ring being more versatile, while Recumbent Bliss can slowly damage your opponent. Even if I would use Journey to Nowhere or Swords to Plowshares, I still would try to squeeze 1-2 Oblivion Ring into the mainboard, because I can get rid of enchantments and artifacts with the Ring, something the others can't. It simply provides me with an option against non-land cards in the mainboard and it isn't a dead card.
From my Rakdos vampire deck
2 Curse of Stalked Prey vs 1 Stensia Masquerade
I only want to have one instance of Curse of Stalked Prey on the field, because I feel that everything else is an overkill, so I went with 3 Curse of Stalked Prey in the beginning. When Stensia Masquerade came out I did replace one instance of Curse of Stalked Prey with it, because the Stromkirk Captain's in the deck tend to get killed rather fast (or as fast as possible, if you ask some of my opponents ;) ) but first strike is necessary in this deck.
2 Read the Bones vs 2 Sign in Blood
Sign in Blood is cheaper and faster, but it "only" allows your to draw two cards and need {B}{B} to cast. Read the Bones on the other hand costs 3 mana, {2}{B}, so it's easier to cast and it allows you to scry 2 before you draw 2 cards. The advantage of Sign in Blood is that its cheaper and thus faster, while Read the Bones has advantages in easier colour-requirements and being stronger in games that take a little bit more time.
From my wifes MonoG Wolf Ramp
1 Garruk Wildspeaker vs 1 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Now here you have a complete different reason to split cards. This is my wifes deck, and I supported her with some cards, others she did buy at our local gaming store, but in the end, she decided to use those two planeswalkers, because she already had them as real cards, they where a great addition to the deck, but the deck could run very well without them. If you draw one of them it's fine, if you don't it's also OK.
2 Inkmoth Nexus vs 2 Kessig Wolf Run
The deck uses Primeval Titan to search for special lands and then pump up Inkmoth Nexus or any other creature you want to. I we didn't want to rely on 1 copy of those special lands (and mountains) so we added 2 of them in the case one somehow got destroyed. If you're up against land destruction, this deck will have to rely on other means to win, because getting rid of 4 special lands is a no-brainer for LD, but other deck usually only have LD in the sideboard (if at all) and normally not enough to pose a real danger to all of those lands.
Last, I wrote a description on how to build decks, a long time ago. One of the points was "Play cards 4 times!":
You have a strategy and you have some cards that you want to draw to win this game, those cards are key-elements to your plan. So if your deck and strategy is built around certain keycards you can question yourself “how often do I want to have those in my hand or on the battlefield?”. The answer in most of the cases will be “as often as possible” so have as many of those in your deck as possible: 4 times. If it is part of your strategy to have e.g. a counterspell on your hand in turn 2, you should not just play one type of this spells 4 times but two or even more.
Cards that you don’t want to have on your opening hand, can be reduced to 2-3 copies. This ensures that you have a chance of drawing them later on when you need them. The same goes for legendary cards because you normally don’t want to have more than one on the battlefield and perhaps a second one on your hand. If you have a high number of spells that let you draw cards, or you're using cards that let you search for other cards (so called "tutors"), you can reduce those numbers to 1-3.
It’s also pretty hard to judge a deck that consists of an extreme amount of different cards. Most times one of the first comments you will hear (at least from me), if you don’t follow this rule or explain why you don’t follow it, is that you should play important cards 4 times.
1
Posted 22 August 2021 at 10:19
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SirKeks
3 posts
Thank you for responding Muktol! What you've said makes sense.
Here's what I'm working on right now, I'm trying to apply this logic a bit.
//Creature (22)
4 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Incandescent Soulstoke
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Lightning Skelemental
4 Nova Chaser
1 Spitebellows
3 Thunderblust
4 Thunderkin Awakener
//Enchantment (2)
2 Pandemonium
//Instant (4)
4 Lightning Bolt
//Sorcery (8)
4 Assault Strobe
4 Heat Shimmer
//Land (24)
4 Dormant Volcano
4 Flamekin Village
16 Mountain
How does that look? Too many 4 ofs?
The idea is like other Harbinger/Soulstoke decks (This one is a remodel of my old R/U one I built for Standard and later for Extended). This one uses Thunderkin Awakener to keep attacking with the same, dead Novas every turn and duplicate them with Heat Shimmer. But I wanted more utility on the creature side, as well as more uses for Soulstoke than just the 4 Novas. I think I'm on the right track here putting just 3 Thunderblusts. It's a good card and works well with the Awakeners, but it's not a Nova. I'd rather draw Nova than a Thunderblust in my opening hand. And then Pandemonium at 2, and not 4 because it's got a steep casting cost for this deck until after the initial light show is over so it won't do me any good until later in the game, assuming the game gets to that point.
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Posted 31 August 2021 at 04:09
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Muktol
1,767 posts
No, looking good.
[[Flamekin Harbinger]] serves as tutor and can also be used for [[Nova Chaser]]'s champion ability.
[[Incandescent Soulstoke]] is a key-creature, because you need to increase [[Thunderkin Awakener]]'s toughness somehow by one, or else the thing with [[Nova Chaser]] won't work (toughness has to be less, both have toughness 2)
[[Thunderblust]] look like an alternative for [[Nova Chaser]], but it's less powerful and costs more, so you don't want to have it in your hand more than once.
[[Assault Strobe]] could be replaced or split with [[Raking Claws]] or [[Temur Battle Rage]]. Replacing it would mean having 1 cmc1 drop less, but having the option to give a creature double strike with instant speed...like a [[Nova Chaser]] you just brought back with [[Thunderkin Awakener]]. Splitting it, using 2 and 2 of each card would still allow you to have the 1 mana [[Assault Strobe]], but also have a chance on the 2 mana [[Raking Claws]] or [[Temur Battle Rage]].
In addition to [[Incandescent Soulstoke]] you could also take a look at some draw/ discard spells, like [[Tormenting Voice]], if the lord get's removed you would still have an option to get creatures into your graveyard and use them with [[Thunderkin Awakener]].
Just one question: Why don't you release your decks, so that others can take a look at them? When you add a description and/ or ask questions, it's more likely that you will get help in the deck-section, than in the forum (Sadly), because not many people wander here at the forum.
0
Posted 02 September 2021 at 07:21
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