This deck will get destroyed by any halfway decent deck in modern. If you look at any good deck in modern (aside from tron), the mana curve is WAY lower than this. As a control deck, you need to be able to interact with the quickest decks because if you just sit around ramping and drawing cards until turn 3-5 you will just end up losing.This type of deck is a complete plague on this website: far too often I see decks without fetch lands that run cards that cost 6+ mana and have difficult color requirements. Pro-tip: They just don't work. I appreciate cruel ultimatum, in theory, but calling this deck a modern deck is laughable.Budget or not, this deck will simply not be any fun to play because it will rarely work and you will get smashed. Over and over.^All of this aside...At the BARE minimum, you should be running a playset of lightning bolts, a host of counterspells, and an anger of the gods in the main board.Lightning axe+fiery temper might be a cute synergy in standard, but it's just not consistent or strong enough for modern. Think of this as a two card combo. If you compare it to other two card combos in modern, then you start to realize just how under powered it is: Sword of the Meek+Thopter Foundry; Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker+Restoration Angel; Kitchen Finks+Melira, Sylvok Outcast (Viscera Seer is really just gravy); Angel's Grace+Ad Nauseam; Knight of the Reliquary+Retreat to Coralhelm... My point here is that if you're looking to shove two cards together for synergy, then they really should be winning the game for you. If they aren't, then what's the point? (especially when lightning bolt is like 1$...)Army of the Damned costs EIGHT mana. That's ridiculous. You're never, I repeat, NEVER going to resolve that. Cruel ultimatum is loose, but that.... That's just a whole other story. You should cut it and not look back. Yeah, 26 power across 13 creatures will win the game (unless you just die because you tapped out and put in a bunch of TAPPED creatures that can't even block on the turn they enter). But what's the point of winning with some big flashy piece of garbage when you could go for a sleeker design? (why drive a semi truck when you could be driving an SUV?) why not try something like Goblin Dark Dwellers? It's cheap enough that it follows your budget design, and rebuying a kill spell or a draw spell feels great, especially when it's attached to a 4/4 with evasion.Living Lore is a cool card but I don't really know why you would want to play it when you have so many other options: Mulldrifter, Goblin Dark Dwellers, Gurmag Angler, Tasigur The Golden Fang, Inferno Titan, or even Grave Titan (since zoobs are fun).So, if I have to explain diminishing returns then I will, but for now I'll just tell you that Whip of Erebos is bad here since you only have 4 creatures. Another wrath would be better. Maybe one you can rebuy with GDD? (Anger of the gods comes to mind?)Skin invasion is fun for limited but is really just a Vanilla 3 power creature that you have to work for. If you want that effect, then you should be playing Wild Nacatl. Also, you should be playing zoo. Since you're effectively a control deck, as grixis should be, you should replace these with removal spells. You want things that hit a broad array of creatures, so varying you options is cool. Some array of things like Doom blade, Lightning Bolt, Electrolyze, and Repeal should do the trick while still maintaining a low price tag.While we're at it, Serum Visions is exceedingly cheap right now relative to where it's been in the past, and has been a lynchpin or blue decks since the banning of ponder and preordain, so it's a good time to buy/trade into those, if you're looking to improve upon consistency.
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Yeah. I mean, honestly I think you're just wrong. (no offense, I do think that serum vision is a fine card and I certainly would've played it prior to the latest unbanning, but I think Ancestral Vision is too good to pass up).Control decks looks to... A) go long and B) build up and insurmountable card advantage.While I certainly agree that it's a very poor late game top deck, drawing three cards is HUGE. There is not other card worth playing in modern that goes +3 on cards consistently (except maybe Jace Beleren?). I think you really do want a draw three effect because it's just that strong. Even if you have to wait. Even if it's not good as a top deck.Generally, you want ways to go up on card and Serum Visions just doesn't do that. Dont get me wrong, serum visions is a stellar card, but think of it this way: Serum Visions has never been banned. Ancestral vision just got unbanned. The reason they banned this card is because it was too good. Yes, there are other cantrips that are banned (ponder, preordain) but I really do think you want to be playing this card.If you're looking for ways to mitigate the unbearably bad top deck aspect, you could play Jace, Vryn's Prodigy to pitch it. Another (awesome) interaction is Goblin Dark Dwellers. Since Ancestral Vision has no CMC --which is less than 3CMC-- you can cast it without waiting with GDD. A 4/4 with evasion that draws three? Sign me up.
I think you probably want 4 ancestral vision rather than serum visions
This deck would benefit greatly from Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Darkblast is repeatable removal, which is cool, and it fuels dredge, which is something that this deck wants. Interestingly, you can cast it twice in one turn if you cast it on your upkeep, prior to draw, and then dredge it back and recast.
I like this card, but I don't know what I would cut to make room for it. Do you have any thoughts?Also, it's 4 CMC which would make it the most expensive, and, hopefully, the best card.
Skullclamp WOULD help. But yes, banned in modern.
I might suggest adding a little more diversity to your counterspells. Dissipate is cool and all, but it doesn't really do too much for you and it's a little slow for modern. I understand that you wouldn't want to make this deck too expensive, but adding cards like Remand and Path To Exile will drastically increase your chances of actually getting to your later cards, like venser.Here is what I would suggest that your counterspell package look like:4 remand1-2 Mana leak1 dispel1 cryptic command (not entirely necessary, but it is incredibly powerful if you can consistently cast it)If you don't wanna go all out for CC, you could run Repeal instead. (Bonus: You can bounce your own creatures when you're in need of a flicker effect)I wouldn't suggest running 4 inquistor exarch. It's not quite strong enough to justify, and it's WW, so it can be a bit of a strain on your 3 color mama base. Maybe go to one or two. If you want to keep that life-gain going you could use Lantern Guide(?) from BFZ for some HUGE life swings. This could easily put you out of range of aggro decks if you get even just two triggers.On that note, another great addition would be Kitchen Finks. This is a modern staple and is actually quite busted. You can use it to trade with a 3 toughness creature and then blink it back to a 3/2 for a total of 6 life gained (and more to come!)These are all the suggestions that come to mind right now, perhaps later ill think of some more.
This deck is screaming for kitchen finks.Also Suture priest might be ok. Maybe not. (bonus: gives you a really good splinter twin hate card in MB, which surmises anywhere between 15-30% of modern's meta, depending on what else is going on in the format)and um maybe path to exile bc that's always good. or maybe darkblast because it fuels your graveyard and is recursive.
My one qualm with running hardened scales is that it's not a creature and therefore dilutes the efficacy of collected company...
Thanks!I'll check out the suggestions you made. I think you're probably right about the discard spells. those rock.
S0rin, actually, yes, I did consider that. And actually, I don't believe that this deck has much other chance of winning.You're right, you can steal games with twin, no one, no one, is arguing that... Because twin is a good, established combo in modern and this deck is never going to win without it... That doesn't mean it fits in this deck.You could throw scapeshift into a CoCo deck and call it an Alt. Win con, but that doesn't mean it should be there...As for your rakdos aggro comment, sure, burn can play control, but it's not nearly as good as an actual control deck. It simply doesn't have the draw power to sustain itself. Furthermore, rakdos aggro is an ENTIRELY different deck and has black for draw power. (read the bones, sign in blood, hell, even black's fireball: Damnable Pact). Furthermore, Rakdos Aggro is in standard, which is a very different, far slower, format than modern.S0rin, stop being a prick. This is why I don't like this website anymore. The same 8-10 people post their decks and get 80% of them to the top page because they have a few, loyal followers. Then they get all upset when someone disagrees with their ideas. Just because other people have adequate ideas that may run counter to your own doesn't mean you can or should be able to shout them down and tell them they're wrong. Rational debate and testing paves the way to higher thinking. It's why we've developed the Scientific method rather than simply going with whomever can shout the loudest.Look, I'm not trying to be mean to you in any way, in fact, I respect many of the decks you have posted, but I simply don't agree with this one. Telling me and the other dissenters to "shut up and get off my deck" is neither mature nor is it a good way to improve upon what you've built. Admittedly, some people commenting on this deck have been neither respectful nor particularly intelligent, but that is a personal problem, one that you could address through a private message or elsewise. I'm sorry that not 100% of people, me included, agree with you. Life isn't always that perfect.
Yes, you're right, it does run electrolyze, but only BC it draws a card and forms a 2 for zero. Electrolyze has been shown dozens of times as one of the best cards in modern. And yes, roast is a kill spell, not burn. Just because something does direct damage doesn't make it a viable burn spell. It's why you never see burn decks playing electrolyze.
Perhaps what I said was unclear... By playing burn, you're wasting cards. Twin is a control based deck, burn is an aggro deck. Aggro decks work to throw everything that they can at the opponent while control works to stay alive for the long run. Control works on hand advantage, aggro works on reducing the opponent to zero. By playing burn spells, you're hurting your hand and the opponent. The goal of twin is to infinite, so hurting the opponent doesn't provide any real advantage to your game strategy, in fact, playing burn hurts you more than them, because it is negative card advantage.Where I said that playing burn reduced your chance to stay alive long enough to combo off, what I meant was that you're hurting your hand and not really gaining any card advantage from it. Lightning bolt is used as a kill spell because it's one mana and forms a hyper-efficient 1 for 1 on card advantage (usually positive for you).On the flip side, by playing twin and an exarch in burn ( in this case, midnight guard) you're reducing your chances to kill the opponent through burn because you're wasting slots that could be used for extra burn spells. These slots (7) total to, potentially, 21 damage.My main point is that these two strategies are not trying to achieve the same things and therefore are not viable as one deck.
Every deck that has topped has run lightning bolt. As a kill spell. No more burn.
Thanks, man.Magic is, at its simplest, a game of numbers, and this deck doesn't add up.
I like this deck, however, it's definitely a little slow for modern and lacks removal. Adding a playset of Path to Exile would help a ton. Furthermore, you should probably add in a few more lands to make your deck more consistent. Personally, I would run 23-25 but that's just me. Twenty means an average hand will only get you 2.3 lands, which is not enough to cast anything you run except for mikaeus at 1, which isn't very good, and your mana dorks (good choice). This still isn't very consistent and will cause you a lot of problems down the road.
Alternatively you could run a GB and/or and WB shock land BC lingering souls is the best token producer in modern. Running black would also give you access to Sorin, Solemn Visitor, which is awesome in tokens.
This deck is no good. Burn and twin run counter to one another. The point of twin is to go infinite, the point of burn is to throw everything you can at the opponent. Twin works to stay alive longer, burn looks to put the opponent down as quickly as possible.It might win a few games here and there, but it's by no means competitive. By playing twin and midnight guard you're lowering the consistency of burn by seven cards, which will make burn utterly inconsistent. By running a burn cards in twin, you're reducing the likelihood that you'll be able to stay alive to combo off.TlDr: Just because two decks are in the same color, doesn't mean that they should be shoved into one...
Nothing particularly wrong with this deck, but I don't understand what makes it a "crazy idea". It seems like a pretty standard selesnya deck.Also I suggest fleecemane lion over call of the conclave
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