Poison the Well, thats what I was thinking of.
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Delvix, I'm not sure, but this looks like a standard deck? If so Jace Beleren isn't legal.
Thanks. I was lucky and picked up most of it back in the day when it was cheap. I keep thinking theres another Red LD spell that does direct damage. I think Drain the Well or something? And then... I think theres another still from the Zendikar block. Just giving you some more options. :)
Fudgeman123, I know what you mean by only doing 10 damage. One on one this deck does ok, however, in a group setting eith 4-6 people, I just get gang beat. The one disadvantage I am noticing with this deck is that I can't assist in kills of other players. Since all of my damage is infect, if someone is down to their last 5 life, I can't ever deliver the final blow to take someone out. Its why I am debating just going U/B control. Racky54, I wasn't being hateful when I made the deck. I just thought I was being clever and getting around the 40 damage, and also getting around some of the annoying seemingly infinite life gaining decks I've ran accross. From my experience, in the EDH format, Infect still remains the only way to take care of some of the life gain decks. Phan7asm, Whispersilk may help here. I am definitely thinking about it, but I am not sure what I would cut for it.
No Seismic Spike to chain into a second land destruct spell? Have you considered Stoneshaker Shaman? I see your Red LD deck, and raise you a Black LD! http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=100729
Awesome! I have been wanting to throw together a self mill deck myself, just haven't put the time and effort into it yet. Looks great man!
After looking through your deck I have many questions to ask before my respones. ---When you say "Last attempt at an EDH deck..." Does that mean that the deck isn't working quite as you planned so you are deciding to give up if you can't get it right? I really hope thats not the case. EDH is a lot of fun, but you have to find a grove, a niche that you are comfortable in. At first I had no idea what to do, so my friends suggested either Slivers or Infect since they are both easy. I tried both, and both worked semi ok. From there though I have had many ideas that I want to try out. Don't give up just because you're frustrated at first. Sticking with it will pay off in the end! :) ---What is your ultimate "meta game" or "win condition"? Have you defined what the focus of the deck is yet? It seems to be all over the place, but I do see a hint of Mill and graveyard play. I take it you are trying to Mill them and use Wrexial and spells to steal stuff from their graveyard? ---Are most of the cards you have from the Innistrad block? Do you have access to any older cards? The beauty of EDH is you can use a lot of the old MTG "gems". Amazing cards that have been long forgotten, buried in the last two decades of expansion sets. ---Whats your budget look at? I am going to suggest a hand full of things that could help the deck out, but you may have to trade for/buy them. Suggestions: 1) Add more counter magic. In my opinion, Dissipate is the only good counter you have. Kind of silly that you have counter spells, but you left out COUNTERSPELL, the original of its kind. Look into the following counter magic spells: Undermine, Counterspell, Countersquall, Hinder (gets rid of generals), Force of Will, Mana Drain, Counterbalance, Pact of Negation, Dash Hopes. Others that are more spendy are Rewind, Dismiss, Discombobulate. And then theres the oh so amazing card DECREE OF SILENCE! It will lock down the next 3 spells. Your oppenent will wet themselves when you drop it onto the playing field. Heres a list of others http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=+[counter]&color=+@(+[U])&type=+["Instant"] 2) More kill spells. You have some alright ones, but you have no board clearers. Damnation and Black Sun's Zenith are good mass kill spells and will get around pro blue and pro black critters. Pognify is a good blue kill spell, gives them a creature, but will take care of large threats that are pro black or super huge things like eldrazi. You can also look into sac cards like Chainer's Edict, Diabolic Edict, etc. Grave Pact works WONDERS to lock down someone's creature base! 3) Multi mana lands. Look into a few things like Drowned Catacomb, Creeping Tar Pit, Underground Sea, etc. Google search "dual lands" and you can find an MTG wiki that has a list of the diverse lands that clasify as dual lands. Fetch lands will also help you get the land you need when you need it. Fetch lands are lands like Polluted Delta that let you pay a life in order to search for and play a land. It also helps with the process of deck thinning, removing a card from your deck, making you that much more likely to draw the card you need. Creeping Tar Pit also works as a great unblockable creature that you can throw an equipment card on for interesting effects. Inkmoth Nexus and Mutavault are other good "man lands" that may fit for you. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will help ensure you have swamp walk for Wrexial. It'll help get you closer to doing 21 "General damage" for the win. If you want to stick with Mill, Nephalia Drownyard is better than Duskmantle in my opinion, or a second Mill land if you want it. Remember "land base is what makes a deck"! 4) Equipment, it helps! You have the greaves, which is a huge player, but you should look into getting a few of the swords as well. Sword of Fire/Ice and Feast/Famine would be awesome in this deck. As well as Umezawa's Jitte. Those equipment cards can be game changing. 5) Draw/Search! Jace (Beleren or Mindsculpter), Visions of Beyond, Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, other tutors, Phyrexian Arena, Sensei's Divining Top, are all good search and draw cards you should consider. If you are having a dry spell you need to be able to dig up what you need for the kill. 6) "Must Have" creatures. For Blue and Black I would say you are really missing out if you don't through a Shadowmage Infiltrator in there. Also theres Soemn Simulacrum. You get to search for a land, and you get to draw a card when he dies, hes a great two for one! There are others, but I am at work and can't think of what they are at the moment. I will list them later for you though. In conclusion, once you know what you want your "Win Condtions" to be, build the deck around that. Wrexial's ability is pretty sweet, and some times it works to your advantage, I actually run him myself. However, I don't know if his ability alone is worth building the deck aorund. I would say making him unblockable or insuring his island/swamp walks, and giving him some bad ass equipment in order for a fast 21 damage would be a more reliable win condition than relying upon whats in your opponent's graveyard. I hope this helps some. If you need any more help don't hesitate to ask, I will help where I can. Please feel free to check out my decks and comment/like/critique/etc. Take care! http://www.mtgvault.com/Profile.aspx?UserID=43944
One thing you may want to keep in mind is that mill is kind of slow. You have zero counterspells, and that may hurt you in the long run.
You could also throw in some Blue Elemental Blast and Hydroblast. Then when you play the servant you call all cards as "red". That way you now have a one mana counter/destruction card for anything thats played. Throwing in a Lion's Eye Diamond would help for first turn kills. I'd rather have the Lion's Eye then the Manalith personally.
Looks pretty nice. I am not a fan of the Pyromancer Ascension. You have to wait until you get a third of a certain spell that you already cast. In a fast burn deck, what are the chances of you pulling three of any one burn card before you kill your opponent? Maybe Reverberate would be better in this deck than the Pyromancer Ascension.
Hmmm... have you thought about throwing in Mind Twist instead of the Abandon Hope?
You're missing Benalish Hero!
Hey, I was looking through this deck again and was thinking of other ways you could tweak it. Here are the Balthor and Mortivore decks I run. I had a slightly different version during the Odyssey block and ran mono black control. The Mortivore deck was seemed to do better in block format tournaments becuase it was so creature control heavy. Anyways, take a look at them, it may give you a few ideas of where you could tweak your deck. Balthor deck: http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=100654 Mortivore deck: http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=100677
I made a Mill deck and it does ok at home with my brothers and friends, but when I went to a card shop and tested it out, it got destroyed by a mass of K-Red gob decks. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thank you all. http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=155534
Got a suggestion for you. Why not run Laquatas's Champion and Buried Alive? Drop for champions into the graveyard, then use Balthor and bring all 4 champs out, causing them to lose 24 life. If you are doing graveyard work anyways, another good card could be Mortivore. This deck is really creature heavy, which is fine, but it seems like you have little support to get your main combo working. What happens if people lock down your creatures?
Keep in mind, I am not sure of how much money you want to spend on the deck, so my suggestions are based off if you have a moderate amount of cash/trade available for these cards. Drop a few of the Haunting Echoes and Traumatize. They lose their effectiveness after the first use. You could throw in Tome Scoure or Memory Sluice in their place, both being cheap to throw out. Another thing you may want to consider is that a burn or aggro deck would tear you up. You don't have any quick defense, and the Dark Rituals for mana exceloration will only get you so far to get the Nemesis out for a potential blocker. Also, you don't have any counterspells. Counterspells are blue's greatest control feature. If you don't utilize them for control, then you are likely to fall victim to control decks yourself. With the title "Lightning", I assume you want it to be a speed mill. Its a great concept, but mill by nature is a slower win condition. You are going to need either blockers, control, or a combination of the two. Looking at what you have in here I would cut the following cards. 4 Dark Ritual 2 Archive Trap 2-4 Haunting Echoes 2-4 Traumatize 4 Hymm to Tourach 4 Darkslick Shores 4 Drowned Catacombs -Dark Ritual- Great card for initial mana exceloration, but I am unsure of what you could bring out that would be huge on turn 1 or 2 that would justify running this other than then Nemesis. -Archive Trap- Great card, but no every deck has search abilities. I would keep maybe 2 in the deck, and sideboard the other two. If you draw and can't use it against someone its a huge casting cost. -Haunting Echoes- Loses its effectiveness after the first time using it. If you play it after they have a decent amount of cards in the graveyard then their deck is halfed. -Traumatize- Is less effective each time you cast it. If you use it on turn 5 if you went first, they would only have 49 cards in their deck if they are running the usual 60 card deck. That means you'll get rid of approximately 25 cards there, and its halfed every time you use it after. So in reality only the first, maybe the second, use is really amazing. -Hymm to Tourach- Why not just run Counterspells for control? -Darkslick/Drowned- I am not a big fan of "comes into play tapped" lands. If I used them in this deck though I would use Dimir Aqueduct or Creeping Tar Pit. Aquaduct is alright if you drop it on turn two or so and returned an already tapped land to your hand. The other great thing about the Aquaduct is that you can keep playing it on other Aquaduct's for Hedron Crab's landfall. I run Hedron Crabs in my U/B mill deck and they are usually half of the milling that I do just from their landfall. Tar Pit is nice for having an extra blocker or being able to deal damage if milling has backfired on you. Cards to consider: (Artifacts) -Decimator Web (Mill and then some, enough to make opponent panic.) -Shriekhorn (Early mill) -Sword of Body and Mind (GREAT if played on a flying or unblockable creature, or Tarpits. Mills and creates cannon fodder!) (Creatures) -Circu, Dimir Lobotomist (This card is amazing for control. He can lock down your opponents deck if you keep him alive, hence another use for Counterspell) -Dimir Infiltrator (Throw a Sword of Body and Mind on him maybe?) -Cavern Harpy (Flying, feeds Circu, can keep playing and returning other harpies for Circu. Cheap blocker, or throw a Sword on her) -Walls/Flyers (Something for early defense that you can get out on turn 1-2) (Control) -Counterspell -Undermine (Counterspell +3 damage to opponent) -Perplex (Counterspell OR Mass Discard) -Recoil (Boomerang type card for big creatures and such) -Leyline of the Void (Get rid of graveyards so they can't reshuffle into their library) -Jace (Either version will do, they have an "oh shit" factor to them that make your opponents choose their moves carefully. The main purpose is for draw advantage or creature control if you have big Jace) -Sadistic Sacrament/Exterpate (Exhile their win condition cards right from their deck) (Mill) -Glimpse the Unthinkable (If you can get even 1-2 of these they are amazing. You can use Bossium Strip or Twincast to get a second use out of them. Or a third use if you Twincast it then Bossium Strip it. A well played Glimpse and Mind Funeral can half a person's deck for a total of 5 mana. Thats Turn 3 and you have them half beat!) -Memory Sluice (Another cheap mill) -Tome Scour (Cheap mill) Hope this helps some!
LOL! This deck would piss me off lol. Good job man.
Hmm... I suggest less discard and more Mill. Heres a list of Mill cards that I was going through before I made my deck. Sword of Body and Mind Jace Beleren Jace, the Mind Sculptor Szadek, Lord of Secrets Nemesis of Reason Circu, Dimir Lobotomist Oona, Queen of the Fae Hedron Crab Drowner Initiate Mind Funeral Glimpse the Unthinkable Memory Sluice Tome Scour Psychic Drain Sadistic Sacrament Extipate Haunting Echoes Traumatize Basically there are four strategies I have seen for Mill decks: -Jace Mill: The main point of the deck is to play defensive while you build up Jace and let him Mill your opponent. -Creature Mill: Creatures that Mill your opponent and control cards to keep them alive and your opponent locked down. -Spell Mill: Defensive creatures and spells and heavy Mill spells. -Artifact Mill: Defensive creatures and spells. Artifacts like Grindstone and Keening Stone to Mill your opponent. I like the Grindstone + Painter's Servant combo, its great. Alternatively I have also seen mono red or blue/red Mill decks as well. The red Mill decks focus a lot on forcing your opponent to draw until they have no more library. Cards like Shocker, Barbed Shocker, and giving them enchantments or equipment that makes them tap to do damage. I suggest just looking on this website and looking at what other people are running for Mill. Just to see what cards are out there. The main thing is to decide what kind of Mill you want to do, as well as what type of deck this is (IE: casual, T1, T2, etc). If I have an idea what you are aiming for I can give better suggestions. Hope this helps out some.
Artorivs, are you trying to keep this deck any certain type or "legal" for tournaments? If not, then theres a wide variety of suggestions I could throw in. Theres nothing wrong with making fun decks :P.
Urza, it looks like he/she is aiming for a Type2 deck, so I don't think they can play the Glimpses?
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