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Went with a modern izzet delver, and just used what I had, added other things that I had laying around as well. Gonna play test it this weekend with my buddies. Any help on what to cut to get it down to 60 cards total.
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I could use some ideas on what to cut to get this down to 60 cards. Thanks. ??
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Always a fun deck setup. Couple things to help here:I'll give some general advice as well as suggestions for what to keep/swap out/add/shaveGetting delirium with Rage Channeler will be hard with so few card types and no fetch lands. You've got creature, instant, and sorcery covered, but you'll struggle to find the fourth type the whole game unless you get lucky, so we'll address that below. Unfortunately the delver build is almost exclusively designed to take advantage of Urza's Saga, which you can't use due to budgetary issues, so we're going to have to get creative on how to round that out a bit.Monument to Endurance doesn't have any good engine mechanics in here, so you can shave it. Flameblast and Sphinx are too expensive and can be shaved. The Mirari Conjecture is too slow and expensive and can be shaved.This deck's best friend is Mishra's Bauble, and you should absolutely run 4 of them. They're free cantrips (replace themselves), and up your artifact count for delirium, exactly what this build needs.Your land base is very slow for what the build wants (turn 1 critter hitting the ground running, followed up by protecting that critter and removing obstacles), but that really can't be helped due to the budget without resigning yourself to only running basics. However, you can take advantage of some of the cheap tapped lands to boost the two mechanics you've got running here. Rush of Inspiration // Crackling Falls will be checked by Delver as a spell, flipping it, but you can play it as a tapped dual land if you need it, or cast it later in the game. Bountiful Landscape can be played turn 1 into a tapped basic or utilized turn 2 for a two-drop before you sac it off for your basic. In either case, you get what you need out of it, and since it's a fetch land, you up the delirium count. I'd recommend running those two over Avishkar Raceway, Swiftwater Cliffs, and Temple of Epiphany (even if this helps Delver).Preordain gives you the scry to help Delver, costs less than a buck, and is better than Sleight of Hand.All of the above brings you back to 64, so you still need to shave some cards.I'd recommend shaving an Expressive Iteration (you can't play it turn 2 cause you can't take advantage of playing a land off it/don't have any mana to abuse it), a Treasure Hunt (the math is very much on you only drawing 1 card off it without help from a scry/surveil, and the potential benefits don't outweigh the two-drop draw 1 it's likely to be), a Dreadhorde Arcanist (it's conditional and slow (in the context of the deck that wants to play a critter turn 1 and then protect it)), and a Counterspell (the UU is harder to rely on in the early game, and holding up two mana to use it can/will slow you down (you've got 4 two-drop counters, which is probably too slow for the build)).Just my thoughts, take em or leave em
I will GLADLY take your thoughts under advisement. ?? I'm meeting up with my buddies this Friday, and I probably won't be able to trim/add anything before then. But as soon as I can, I'm definitely taking you up on some of your ideas. My only question would be, what benefits would I gain IF I were to add in urzas saga? I've never really seen what all the fuss is about that card. ???????
It certainly doesn't look impressive on its own, that's perfectly fair. Here's the breakdown, both for why it's good on its own and for the delver build.A- it's a land that produces material: if you're willing to invest 2 turns worth of mana into it, you can create two 3/3 critter tokens and get a 1-drop artifact. One of the central problems of magic is that you NEED lands as quickly as possible, after which you NEED to not draw lands. Getting land screwed or land flooded are the easiest ways to lose a game, and there are only limited things you can do about this problem. Saga gets around this, as it produces mana if you need it, after which it produces material if you can afford it. So it's almost never a bad draw or a bad place in an opening hand.B- it's an artifact tutor: even if it only gets a 1-drop artifact, there are some extremely useful 1-drops that either fix a problem, draw you a card, or just up the artifact count (which makes the tokens Saga creates stronger). Any way you look at it, it's a land that helps you get what you need to solve whatever problem you're looking at.C- it's a win condition: spawning two critter tokens may not seem like that important an effect, but they are a way to win games that are in a stalemate, stall for time if you need it, or are straight up a win condition in artifact decks, as they get stronger the more artifacts you have. You can also do some nasty tricks with them, such as fetching Lavaspur Boots so that both tokens can attack immediately as a 3/3 and 4/3 with Ward 1, or fetching Shadowspear so that you've got a 3/3 and a 4/4 with Trample and Lifelink.D- delirium: Saga is worth 2 card types, one of which is the most rarely used (making getting delirium a forgone conclusion). Of note, not all delver builds use it (delver has changed a lot over the years), but since Saga is a land and an enchantment, and it kills itself, your grave just went from only having instant and sorcery to having the full delirium with a single card, on top of everything else it does. Perhaps best of all, since it searches for an artifact, you could always get an artifact that can sac itself on the cheap, meaning that Saga just got you 3/4 of your card types for dilirium, and all it cost you was 2 turns and maybe a single mana (if you fetched, say, a Spellbomb)E- recycling/copying tricks: Saga can be copied with Thespian's Stage after it hits its token trigger, meaning you can make tokens with it every turn and never lose the mana. You can also recycle Saga and keep using it's busted abilities with cards like Life from the Loam and Wrenn and Six, making it unbelievably problematic in games that aren't decided very quickly. In essence, Saga can create engines that win games through grinding out 'free' material that are relatively difficult to stop. Since it's a land, traditional removal doesn't work on it, and since it can be recycled, if you don't have something like a Pithing Needle to shut it down, even if you manage to kill it off once, it can be brought back any number of times to keep being a problem. Lots of control decks use it is a win condition/engine for this very purpose and let you fill the rest of your deck with removal/counter/control junk and just say 'no' to whatever opponent is doing while you let Saga win for youHere's a hypothetical game showing you what I'm talking about:Turn 1- play island, play Delver, passTurn 2- (hopefully) flip Delver, play Saga, swing for 3 with 2 mana up for interaction (17 life left)On opponent's turn- counter or remove whatever opponent doesTurn 3- play a land, attack with Delver, pass (14 life left) (you've got 3 mana up to counter/remove if necessary)End of opponent's turn- tap out to create a token if you didn't have to interactTurn 4- Saga's suicide ability triggers, you tap out to create a second token in response, then fetch an artifact (depending on what you need) and swing with Delver and the first token (8 life left)Turn 5- you swing with everything and GGThe only real problems with Saga are that 1- it costs 50 bucks a pop (meaning that each copy of it is worth an entire budget deck), 2- it only produces colorless mana (so it throws off your mana curve slightly and limits the colors you can play), and 3- it suicides itself so you can't rely on it for mana for very long (but notably it can replace itself if necessary). In a build like this, you could add in Saga and a few artifacts like Aether Spellbomb or Pyrite Spellbomb, or you could just run your 4 Mishra's Baubles (which you desperately want to run anyway (they combo off of everything)), as Saga can fetch one and they replace themselves while giving you a peek at a topdeck (you can use this on yourself to see if Delver will flip and/or use a fetchland or draw effect to help Delver flip). So, you play it, either get critter tokens off of it or use it for mana short term, then get an artifact that sacs itself and gives you instant In all reality, going with Saga in an otherwise budget build is probably a bad idea. You could just as easily spend MUCH less and ramp up the build with cards like Fiery Islet, Spell Pierce, Sink into Stupor // Soporific Springs, Spirebluff Canal, and Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft, or just make minor tweaks to the build and keep it budget friendly but running more smoothly. I'd advise against running them personally. If you want to sink more money into the deck, there are just easier/cheaper/better ways to do it.If you need more help, just let me know.
Ok. I took a little bit of your advice and this is the current re-work (as soon as the mishra's baubles and evolving wilds come in at least), the only thing that I would really LIKE to do is get rid of the ONE incinerate and replace it with a fourth lightning bolt, but I'm mainly working with what I had laying around and getting a few here and there, the baubles and evolving wilds were cheaper than a lightning bolt ??. But all in all, I'm at exactly 60 cards now. [CREATURES]4 Delver of Secrets // Insectile Aberration4 Dragon's Rage Channeler4 Sprite Dragon[ARTIFACTS]4 Mishra's Bauble[INSTANTS]2 Counterspell1 Incinerate3 Lightning Bolt2 Mana Leak2 Rush of Inspiration // Crackling Falls3 Thought Scour4 Unholy Heat[SORCERIES]1 Ancestral Vision4 Expressive Iteration4 Serum Visions2 Sleight of Hand[LANDS]4 Evolving Wilds5 Island5 Mountain1 Riverpyre Verge1 Temple of Epiphany
Looks good. Only thing that worries me is the 18 lands. I'd personally shave a Counterspell for a basic Island, but that's me. I'm a hater of mulligans. Let me know how it plays