Stronghold on Modern

I never mind if people use ideas presented in decks I post, or even copy the deck directly. I always think its better for people to personalize their decks; however, there's no reason that one person should monopolize a design just because they posted it first.

Having said that, however, credit for this deck has to go to DedWards for building the deck that inspired this one: Stronghold on Discipline (link posted in description if you haven't seen it).

Personally I dislike people netdecking (copying a deck directly), I won't stop you from doing it, I just don't like it. One of the things I like about Magic is the versatility and the encouragement of creativity. Netdecking does not promote creativity and thus spoils the game for me. So use the idea and put you own twist to it, then link me and I'll give my 2 cents worth :p

The reason I don't mind straight net decking is because, using this deck as an example, it may come to the point where I realize that your WB design is as best refined as it can get. Granted, if that were the case, it'd be my own play testing that lead me to those same conclusions. But still, I prefer an individual touch to decks as well.

see, savage, thats why your awesome! you dont mind people using your deck ideas/combos (my ragequit deck, for instance) as long as they credit you! u da boss man!

The cost is entirely why I am only running two Dragons. Pretty much just ignore haste on the guy unless your opponent is already at six or less life and you can swing for the kill. He adds an entirely different threat to the deck, though, in addition to giving the opponent more creatures to kill them with. I found that 3x 2/2's can out pace Hissing Miasma or Contaminated Bond, et al., ergo holding him back as a blocker. Again, that's circumstantial based on the opponent's deck as well.

Another build I tried was with the white Hunted creature and Mercy Killing. It's too circumstantial but when it's pulled off it works like a charm.

I'm very back and forth between Nettling Curse and Lust for War. I find myself often conserving a Batwing Brume for when my life is a bit lower and the opponent controls more creatures, and often wind up tapping Forbidden Orchard even when I have nothing to cast. Other fog spells I tend to conserve as well, in case its needed to stall for that extra turn. One thing I do like about this build in general is that games are always close, but Stronghold was going to win from the beginning :P

The dragon giving 2/2's could hurt more that they're worth. Orchid's 1/1's are easy to work with.

Ans that's why Mercy Killing is in my sideboard and not mainboard. Though when I do use it, it's awesome :D The white hunted giving a 4/4 could be problematic.

So, you're the type that conserves fogs? That changes the way the deck runs almost completely. I don't use the fogs as I get them, but if he decides to attack with a group of creatures at once, I fog, especially if it's Batwing :p

Question: what is "et al" ?

Also: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=et+al

Not to be a dick, I just love that site and relish every chance I get to post it ^-^

I like addition of War's Toll, but at 4 mana it mite prove to be a problem. I've found that more than once (with my build) I don't get much mana, but that could just be me :|

As for suffering to control decks, I have yet to face one with my build. Lucky for me most of my group plays aggro or combo :) and as for lack of creatures, that's what the Agent and Orchid are for, just need to play more than one Stronghold :p

et al response - That was quite mean, made me feel stupid when I'm just lazy :(

That is one of the only problems I've had, I typically do not run fewer than 22 lands but cannot find room for them in here. By the time I'm ready to cast something CMC 4, though, I usually do have enough lands.

I did not mean that the problem control poses is that they do not run creatures for me to use against them, its that since they do not run so many creatures they have more card advantage, counter spells, and spot removal in their decks -- enough that they easily mitigate the cards I'd use to turn the creatures against them. Therefore they're not only maintaining card advantage, but also battlefield advantage.

And I hope you're just joking back ;) But the frowny face makes me think otherwise. Sorry if I offended..

Ok, I get what you mean. I play against very few control decks, but when I do I thoroughly enjoy it. The trick (that I've learned) is to bait out the counters and spot removal and I've mostly got it rite (there have been times when I couldn't follow up the bait).

You didn't offend me, but I wasn't lying, I am lazy :p

I haven't tested the new version yet, I went back to your original Stronghold build for a few matches to compare its performance to mine. The differences really do change how the deck plays -- a lot. I am predicting, though, that War's Toll will fix a lot of the problems I've faced against control.

The other problem, which I didn't mention before, is also how people pilot control as opposed to aggro. Aggro will want to swing all in, maybe leave just one spirit open to block; whereas, control doesn't mind sitting on a bunch of creatures and letting just enough swing through to speed their clock up just a tick faster than mine. Between Hissing Miasma, Contaminated Bond & Lust for War, and Batwing Brume, Toll adds an entirely new win condition over Stronghold Discipline. So much that, I think it could even replace it in the deck o.o

One of the necessary tricks I've found with the my deck while playing against control is to get the Hissing Miasma out asap and before giving too many spirits. Multiple Hissing Miasma would be preferable, but as long as one is out you should both be losing the same amount of life.

On a side note, the funnest matchup I've had was against a turbo fog deck that ran Luminarch Ascension for its win condition :) I kept the fogs to keep me in the game and batwings where for when he foolishly attacked with a group of angels. His fogs where useless against me and Hissing Miasma had him not attacking with the spirits. It's amazing how many people stop attacking when it's out :p

I can agree there, I've played aggressively against control, trying to give them too many spirits at once which makes it too easy for them to remove my answers to them and win. Control likes to play a slow game, if they don't start the clock ticking fast I should just sit back and wait until I have 2-3 answers built up instead of relying on just one or two cards.

Also, having played a few matches with this deck, I've found War's Toll to be incredibly useful. Using that and Contaminated Bond et al as the primary win condition over Stronghold.. what do you think about -1 Stronghold +1 Toll? Or do you think something else should go to make room for Toll?

Honestly I'd put that extra Toll in sideboard. The deck looks good at the moment, but it still needs a sideboard.

I forgot to mention the funniest part about playing against the turbofog, I was the one playing the fogs :p

Hah! That's freakin' awesome. Speaking of which, there's another change I was thinking about making -- throughout many games it's seemed like I could have used one or two more Holy Day / Darkness in the deck. A lot of the games I lost were either because I was completely snuffed out by control, or because I couldn't mitigate my opponent's tempo.

Btw, what do you think of that side board? I don't think it's going to stay, but it's still a pretty neat idea :P Oh, you switched around some SB tech? Surprise! It's a new deck! :D

Aaaactually.. I really like this idea. I will have to contemplate this further.. so long as my main deck is the stronger of the two, and the "transformer" side-board compliments the main deck's weaknesses, the idea is completely plausible. Will have to see if I can pull that off :)

Love the 'Transformer Sideboard' :D it should keep the opponent on his toes. I've always been a fan of sideboards that change the deck completely :p

Not having enough fogs played a big part in the sideboard I use in mine. After sidebording I can have up to 16 fogs in my deck, though I normally only go to 12 :p

I've been thinking of making a WBG version of my deck, I'll post a link here when I'm done designing it.

I was actually thinking the exact same thing -- some way to put more fogs in the SB, but maintaining the "transformer" SB. I'd almost /have/ to run one of my colors as green then in order to keep enough relevance within the 15 card limit to actually replace one color entirely. Plus, Hunted Troll is just as good as Phantasm with regards to dishing out 1/1's. I rather enjoy the unblockable on Phantasm, but an 8/4 with regenerate is just as mean. My only problem with it (and why I haven't built Stronghold on Green) is that Troll's power guarantees the opponent will keep creatures open to chump block, and I want them to attack. At least with a single mana regenerate they won't likely commit all 4 creatures to block it, but still.. is somehow seems to contradict itself.

Scratch that! I'm a frickin' genius ^-^ I dropped red for green and redesigned the land base so there would be no need to run any lands in the SB. Now I have more room in the SB for other cards :D

Personally I don't see that working well. This type of deck uses life as a way to bye time (at least my version does) and damaging myself is counter productive.

It is very counter productive. Every game I've won with this deck and its counterparts has been with 5 or less life. If I'm sending creatures to my opponent's battlefield, they won't even have to do anything except swing them back my way and let me damage myself by tapping my lands. It would create the same kind of circumstance I talked about above, with control decks.

I do find the U/G transformer more stable. Sadly I'm not too good with land base, especially for decks of more than 2 colours. Probably the main reason I cut red out of my one after testing it only twice :| But I'll take a look.

The common problem I have with the lands is they all have "______ enters the battlefield tapped". Maybe you could lower the number of non basic lands, add more basic and put in another land that can add any colour mana (City of Brass comes to mind).

There are two problems that I encounter with the land base -- 1) I need to keep lands that add a versatile combination of mana so that I minimize the number of lands required in my SB to "transform" the deck; and 2) I want to keep the cost of the deck low because that is one of my favorite qualities of your original design. It is absurdly effective for having such a low budget. It's amazing when you can regularly beat a nearly $1k deck with a $70 one :P

City of Brass was a consideration; however, most games I win are with 2-4 life left (which is why the deck is so fun). City of Brass will cost me ~5 life over the course of a game.

The best option I think is the modern zoo land base with pain fetches and shock lands, but you're talking about $10 per fetch and $20-40 per shock land.

Then again, because Phantom and Troll are redundant (ergo a waste of space to include one in the main deck and the other in the SB) and there is so little to add with green, I almost feel like the current build should just drop green, and replace the SB fogs with Dawn Charms. But then we're right back to where my other Stronghold deck was :-/

Hmmm...

Did a quick look into Modern legal lands that add any colour mana and the only ones other than Forbidden Orchid that I'd consider are Gemstone Mine and Rupture Spire. Best part, they should be cheap ($) :D

I still like the inclusion of the Hunted and I'd like to see them kept, but maybe reduced to 2 copies each. Also don't forget that green has land search spells that you can use to help with mana fixing :p

There is City of Brass (I think), I also think that Hunted Horror is an amazing hitter, and it plays along with the theme.

Hunted Horror is an amazing card, but it does not work with this deck. It does not produce enough tokens for them to be of any great benefit to me, and they have protection from black with makes Pillory of the Sleepless and Contaminated Bond useless against them.

City of Brass, while solid mana fixing, does not work very well with this deck as life is short to begin with. Any time this deck wins, it's with 5 or less life, and at that point being dependent on a City of Brass for mana could kill me.

You're right. I forgot I had Seaside Citadel in there. I added that when I was trying out a "transformer" side board, which I dropped for straight WUB when this deck made front page because the idea was incomplete. Green didn't add anything to the deck (during that iteration) that the other colors didn't already handle -- Hunted Troll = Hunted Phantasm, Fog = Holy Day / Darkness, and the other ideas I had for green weren't quite working out at the time.

Both Cabbage and I have tried red in the deck and we've found that although red seems good on paper, in practice it's not good at all.

Red can work, but it's very iffy imo, and requires you to drop the original "stronghold" theme of the deck to include more burn. It's more about managing your opponent's creatures rather than just straight up punishing them for allowing you to give them so many creatures.