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this looks nice. maybe i will build this deck type for our tournament, but i think i will add black collor and remove jace. our tournament deck format is to build a deck in max 1000 CZK cost.
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Awesome, go right ahead!
tadá http://www.mtgvault.com/whitegekon/decks/phenax-mill/its only a bit reworked :) in 3 weeks we have another tournament and maybe i will play with this :)
Awesome looks great!
If you want to run black i love using Liliana Vess, her -8 being able to put all creatures from everyones graveyards onto the battlefield under your control works wonders when you are mill'ing away all there creatures
There are infinitely better options that Lily when it comes to mill. You don't make an army with mill, you mill until they can't draw, then win. Plus she takes too long to get out and up to 8 loyalty. You would've already won by that point
thats True
If you want a fast army then you could add undead alchemist
That assuming the person is using lots of creatures. What happens if they are using storm? Or control? Those run very few creatures
That's very true. It could be put in sideboard then if this is a competitive deck
This is a really cool deck i have most of those card. I should totally make this deck. I play a Blue & White deck right now let me know what you think of it
Spaaaaaaaaaaaam!!!!!!!!
Looking cool! I have some suggestions to add though:-Sanity Grinding. People are gonna die.-Memory Erosion. Love me some deadly mill.If you need cards to remove from here, I would suggest:-At least one Arcane Melee.-One Trepanation Blade.-Some Mind Sculpts.-Some Tome Scours.Otherwise, looking perfectly-working mill deck!
Awesome will do!
I would add in something like Polluted delta, or budget, evolving wilds, for hedron , milling 6.I would also just drop arcane melee, since most of your spells don't have many colorless costs, mostly just blue mana.I would swap them with Curse of the bloody tome, for the constant mill when you run out of cards in hand.Also maybe ponder/preordain/anticipate, when you just really need a good mill card, and not a landI would also drop trepanation for more land, since 15 just really isn't good, and you don't have many attackers compared to other things
Will do with the Arcane Melees because I actually forgot about Curse of the bloody tome and kept trying to remember it but if you are having trouble winning a game with mill wouldn't Jaces phantasm and trepanation blade be a better alternative?
Only problem with that being, he is the only attacker, and things like rakdos charm would turn him into dust, while i think you should keep him for the 1 drop 5/5, i wouldn't depend on it too much
Okay so drop trepanation and add some land?
yea, that's what i'd do, would suck to get an opening hand of some big guys and only 1 or 2 land
Well the only big guy is jace at and the rest is at 3 land so would it be better to add to mind sculpts or 2 more curses of the bloody tome?
Sorry i went to the store, but yea, curse is good
Arcane Melee, how do you plan on casting this with 15 lands?
That just occured to me. How would you suggest fixing this?
I would just drop it, considering it applies to all players, not just you, and you don't have many spells it would do much to.It would really just turn mind sculpt into a 1 drop, of which you only have 2 of
Yea, I dropped it and replaced it with Curse of the bloody tome like someone else reccomended. Thanks for the advice!
Jace's Erasure my friend ran these instead of bloody tome. If you add some cards that allow you to draw it would be very useful and the drawing cards will allow you to have more spells in your hand. I find that playing against Milling decks they rarely have more than 2 cards in there hand, if that. Without a more consistent form of card flow, like howling mines they just end up sitting there, hoping they can mill you more before you get something to kill them.hmmm yeah Jace's Erasure+howling mine or something of the sort might be great for you. Mix a little black, more card draw and the black can eat his life away whenever he draws or discards, mix in a few undying/persist creatures for field presence. Oooh then you could put Mind Funeral, lots of fun. and Teferi's Puzzle Box that would be amazing with Jace's Erasure, and Underworld Dreams drawing/mill/damages. I find its good to mix a few angles into a deck so things like surgical extraction doesnt decimate you.
http://www.mtgvault.com/iskavan/decks/modern-mill-65limit/ there i kinda put it together, its just a rough idea. I did not want to go over 65$ Considering yours is 55$, 10 over isnt to bad. Also the sideboard includes more card options, some are expensive. Might even be able to get it for 50$ if you buy lightly played cards instead of mint.
iskavan mentioned it. mind funeral is great.
If you splash black at all, you might consider 1 or 2 consuming aberration. That makes late game mill insane
What about Mindcrank? Deals damage to your opponent whenever they get milled.
It works the opposite way, it mills IF the opponent takes damage and he doesn't have many critters that are capable.
Oh woops... didn't realize that there.
you need more land and id use riddlekeeper and traumatize. mindshrieker is cool to
Yea, I am in a mix of adding more cards or more land and theres alot of suggestion for cards but I really can't find room.
well with only 15 land hedron crab isn't very good so id drop him lower some of your spells down to 3 each to get up to 20 land
Yeah Hedron crab needs lots of land and the like. I just finished working on a deck that abuses crab to no end. It runs lots of the basic fetch lands and stuff like gush and deprive. Its rather nice looking
the best crab build ive seen uses green with collective voyage
That sounds awesome!
ya I didn't know he was running mill so I used my mono blue mill deck against him lol he was running lots of extra land so his deck was over 80 cards and I hit him with a traumatize for almost 40 but he still beat me by 1 turn
that would have to be built almost like the treasure hunt/zombie infestation build im guessing. lots of land, little of anything else
"Ordinary" crabs need 21-23 lands of which 8-10 needs to be fetch. Theoretically you could run less land and more fetches, but would risk getting stranded. A possible solution to this would be noxious revival which may allow you to replay a fetchland, getting more land. I have use them in past designs with fetch when I need to hardcast archive trap.
Win ratio?
I used to have a deck similar to this but I deconstructed it to use in other decks, but I ended up winning alot but it was mostly to see people get irritated as they saw their cards get flushed into the graveyard
I would drop curse of the bloody tome for visions of beyond, but that's just me.
You should have a playset of tome-scour.
Another way to make your opponent even sadder is to put in a Tormod's Crypt. If they have an Elixir of Immortality or something in their hand, you exile all of their graveyard to make sure nothing escapes. >:)
Relic of progenitus is so much better than Tormod's crypt though
Yeah, I guess...I just don't like the fact that it exiles my graveyard too.
So? It's not like you're running treasure cruise or anything with flashback
Idk that's just my opinion. If you prefer Relic of Progenitus, that works too. The point is, they both exile stuf :3
But relic draws a card. Crypt does not
Crypt is 0 mana, and can activate the ability asap. Relic of Progenitus does its work slowly and costs another 1 addtional mana too.
It may be slow, but of the two, relic actually sees competitive play. Just because one requires mana doesn't make it worse than the other
I was about to recommend Tormod's Crypt as well. I would run it over Relic for the reasons you mentioned. It's probably more of a sidebord card though.
Without any doubt you Need More Land! As well I suggest Archive Trap, there is just so much searching in modern with all the fetches it's an easy free cast.
Agreed. Someone activates a fetch, and BAM!! they're millimg 26 cards.Also, 15 is way to little land. Infect can run with 18 but that's the lowest that any deck can go. I would have about 22 lands in here
You would be surprised on the land actually. I have a red deck that hates in its own artifacts and its biggest problem is too much land, and it's currently sitting at 18. I'm considering doing even more until I can find that happy medium because right now all it does is pull lands like crazy
Then you are either going for too long or you have issues with your shuffling is what I would be thinking
No like I have literally started with one mana hands and still gone crazy. Here I will link it so you can see. It'd being tweaked in reality so it's not completely up to date right nowhttp://www.mtgvault.com/drakeraenes/decks/scrapyard-warfare-2/
Drop the enchantments in favor of Archive Trap and lands. Curse and Memory are both good cards but there are plenty of monster mills here that these wouldn't really be missed.
I agree with those cuts.
Memory Erosion is quite a good card to oressure them with, because you're limiting the amount of spells that they can play and Curse of the Bloody Tome is constant mill.For this deck I would rather cut something like Increasing Confusion which relies on land for it to be good
I disagree, We're talking modern here. You wanna be able to win on turn 4-7. There's virtually no ramp so either card is coming out at best on turn 3 milling 2 cards each turn from then on. This is not fast enough considering the complete lack of counters. I see them having a chance to due damage in a control deck which can stall the game into going many turns. In all honesty I don't see this winning in any modern match against the current decks in the format. There's no way to mill 53 cards before turn 5 and pulling that off would require a god hand while never missing a land drop. (Highly unlikely considering the lack of lands.) However if this not an actual "modern" deck and is meant to be a budget friendly for casual use against other casual players it's fine I suppose.
Most likely it's casual. It would need a lot of work and possibly a second color (black specifically) to really make this competitive
When testing against modern I usually take a total of 5 turns and nothing more, to see if my mill can kill (and how often) Modern aggro usually kills at turn 4, but can pull out a turn 3 kill once in a while, which is why I've always favored fast mill like tome scour and dream twist so that you get to mill around 11 cards with a 1cc and a 2cc before using crypt incursion to get life enough to survive 2-3 turns more, which usually does the trick. Finally, sometimes mill manages to kill an opponents manabase by lucky milling, which also buys a lot of time (which is also another reason to like fast mill, because coupled with surgical extraction you may harm their mana even more by removing fetchlands.)
Wickeddarkman- if you run surgical extraction you can really mess with their mana base the easiest example is tron, getting one of the unplayed lands before turn 3 is basically a win con cause it slows down wormcoil/karn til turn 8 and turns ermakul into a shuffle trigger to get rid of.
Surgical Extraction is an excellent include. It's better than Extirpate because you can just pay life to cast it
There are times where extirplate is better (think splinter twin and all there counters or blocking the ermakul trigger and leaving their graveyard intact) but compared to surgical it's very situational.
TRICKSTER87: I've had some past designs with focus on 4 surgical and 4 extirpate where I've killed legacy-decks by hitting their lands first! In these days I never really tested chancellor of the spires, but recently I've had a lot of fun with 3 chancellor of the spires in mainboard. Could be fun to try it out with 8 extractors and see how well it goes. Usually I used tome scor, dream twist and shriekhorn to perform the turn 1 surgical mill. In legacy chancellor goes well with chrome moxes.
Okay, let's start out here. Fifteen lands is way too little. You will nearly never cast your Jace unless the game drags on way too long (which you would probably be dead by then anyway from lack of defense.) and your Increasing Confusion will hit for next to nothing. Up the lands to about 20-22. You should add in Thoughtscour for the draw and extra mill. It's a really good card. This goes back to the land issue. Play the playset of the crabs or don't run it at all. That card can mill for ridiculous amounts. I would even consider throwing in Evolving Wilds or Terramorphis Expanse just to synergize with that card.Curse of the Bloody Tome and Memory Erosion are both subpar cards. They really aren't that threatening and don't provide any sort of line of defense to protect yourself. You would be suffering pretty badly if your opponent had some removal too. You won't be able to block once they get a few creatures on the board and remove 1-2 of your creatures. This will surely allow them to outrace you with ease.Lastly, I'm not going to bash it because I haven't tried it, but Sanity Grinding doesn't seem like a strong card. If it works for you great, if not whatever.I think you should heavily consider splashing black to gain access to Nephalia Drownyard, Black Sun's Zenith, Mind Funeral, Removal in general, Breaking // Entering, etc. I would rather play this as a control deck that wins via mill instead of hardcore mill, because it just doesn't work.
If you splash black at all then this deck would get infinitely better at mill. Breaking & glimpse the unthinkable ALONE make adding black more than worth it
While agree with everyone with adding black (my mill is esper) its really for ravenous trap, glimpse, mind funeral. breaking| entering is not worth the black as a one card difference for easier mana fixing is the better deal.
Hmmm, quick question, if you run into a player that has something that recurs their graveyard into the deck (Like an eldrazi for example) whats your out besides trying to beat them down with your jace's phantasm? (That now became very small...)
Best way to do that is too actually have something that exiles a graveyard. Because it's an ability that triggers in the graveyard, you can respond to it with things like Tormod's crypt and relic of progenitus. Because of stack rules, you can remove the threat before it can be shuffled back into the graveyard
Relic of Progenitus is my preference for SB. It can instant speed exile a card that does that, and can draw a card when it becomes dead.
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tormods is better than the relic as crypt gets the whole graveyard causing them to shuffle 0 in while the relic is x-1 shuffle in. The draw isn't really that important when you're talking a quarter of your progress getting wiped away. The only downside to the crypt is that it has to be on the field before milling so you can sac it in response to the trigger making it a target for abrupt decay or tap/bounce spells.
But we aren't talking about having to exile the whole graveyard, only a single card that has a shuffle trigger like big Eldrazi or worldspine wurm. As for the shuffle part, that makes no sense. Neither one shuffles so I don't see why you included that. And they both have to be I the field so they both have the same weakness. As for the trigger response, both can do it. Really the only debate between the two cards is do you want a zero drop that his the whole graveyard, or do you want a one drop that can target problem cards and be used as an emergency draw? It's really up to the player
When the decks whole goal is to deck your opponent them getting back 20 cards from their graveyard shuffle trigger versus none is a very big deal. Consider an archive trap that hits Emrakul thats a quarter of the thier deck back rendering one of you best mill spells useless cause thats 12 cards back in (Emrakul was spot removed by scepter) vs 13 cards in exile including Emrakul. Keep in mind just because you exile it from the graveyard it's shuffle trigger still goes on the stack and will resolve even if the Emrakul is in exile when it comes time to resolve.
That's why I add cranial extraction to the sideboard in my Mill deck.
replace curse of the bloody tome with mesmeric orb. I've played it a lot, and in the right deck it will really be cruel! In your deck it will allow you to play dream twist or increasing confusion from the grave!!!
if you go that route be sure to add propaganda and mana web
Isochron Scepter?
I wouldn't think that to be a great addition with this line up . The only targets being Redirect and Dream Twist. Both being Sub-par and probably should be something else anyway.
MANIACAL: Why don't you build a mill-deck? You seem to know enough about the cards involved as well as how modern works!
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I had one that was very efficient. The only thing I hated about it was the reaction from others and the game play experience. Just not my cup of tea. I will make a build of it if you'd like. I believe it was very close to this,http://www.mtgvault.com/maniacalmaniac/decks/mlgnnt-mllng/
personally i would drop the guard gomazoa and the curses for land. this would fix the curve and the mana situation at the same time. both aren't necessary for the deck really to run and 7+ lands seems to be what you're missing.
Agreed.
Need help with my deck just stared it is a dragon deck
Automatic downvote
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persosnally i think this need more creaturrs and ermoval, like goblin guide nad swift kick
Why in the hell are you suggesting red cards for a mono blue deck? The deck doesn't need removal because it wins by deck out. Removal would be a waste of mana. And goblin guide is straight aggro. It's not needed here
oops sorry, accidentaly comment on wrong deck
i woudl presonally get some mana ramp to replace lands, like black lotuses and sapphire moxes, also in my opinion mesmeric orb is bery good for mill- may god bless ur'e souls
I gotta ask uGanDap0rn0, Are you familiar with format legality and or banned/Restricted lists?
srory, im return alpha-4th edition i dont know banner list- may god bless ur'e souls
Well to say the least a LOT has changed since 4th edition. http://magic.wizards.com/en/gameinfo/gameplay/formats/bannedrestrictedIf you feel like getting caught up here's a good place to start.
good deck i guess but i feel somthing missing
He wanted to collect some good millcards, then reap some of them again and increase the lands. I think most millers on an average settle at 22 lands.
no i'm thinking of grindlock
Grindclock is fucking shit
bitch i'll kill u'rew ass with it bitch
i would rather ancestral recall my enemy, but then i found out ancestral recal only vintage, gg i got like 5 extra. for this deck i recommend more lands and shit liek forced fruition, op as fuck bro- may god bless ur'e souls
wtf are u saying
in other words, grindclock is very bad, too slow for any kind of impact in the game, and overall i would rather run something that actualley does anything- may god bless ur'e souls
there's a thing call turn one grindlock by sol ring
and then what, u wasted 2 mana on thing that does nothing, u waste 4 turns putting counters and then what, 10 turn clock? wow so fucking op m8, meanwhile ur opponen plays aggro and kills u by turn 3- may god bless ur'e souls
ther's reason i will say play 4 sol ring on turn on a 3 corless card and grindlock
wow, that is so legit argument, m8 sorry for offending, i didnt know u played a deck that isn't legal in any format. now that u mention it, turn 1 grindclock with counter and turn 1 tezzeret's gambit proliferating is fucking op, sorry for being so naive.- may god bless ur'e souls
see what i meen
i maded a deck based around it, can u rate it? http://www.mtgvault.com/ugandap0rn0/decks/power-of-grinderclock/- may god bless ur'e souls
i'll see it
Grammar Nazis would have a field day with this conversation
Only 1 day? Gee, that's generous
u gugses shit talking my gremmer? y u guises hurt my feeling, i human bean just like u- may god bless ur'e souls
UGANDANP****: Well, you're slanging it a bit more than most do it in here :D Most mtg players like to think of themselves as intellectuals, though a lot fall through the criterium. Since I can see from a few above comment's you do have the capacity for propper writting, so keep up the slanging, pepol nead moar expince in undastand prime speaks :D Ounce ay prawn ai dime their wars au lid-ail ghoul nay-med read raidinghoard! (translates into: once upon a time there was a little girl named red ridinghood) Accents rulez! Can I has more slang?
god morgon to you my brethren, is good day to see another preson wiht accent, sinc i dont wanna fell like i is onli one, houp you habe nice day my efllow huyman bean- may god bless ur'e souls
this deck is relly good
You all really suck... You know that?
Erhm!We ****, and you are the one named sorin markov?How on earth did thatplot twist happen?Very ironical...
sorin markov pls stahp, what is with offensive language, also if u claim that we suck then i guess u suck too, since u thought that if creature is removed then abilit is removed from the stack, top kek and u have made decks for 2 years, that's like the most basic ruel eu, pls stop offensive language no1 is perfect, after all my name is tyrone shitstain- may god bless ur'e souls
I also haven't been playing MTG for the past 5 months or so to build up on my Warhammer 40K, so sorry if I occasionally forget the finite technicallities of the game
...and it's people like this that make me not visit vault anymore. I feel ya s0rin. It's stupid
I know, right? Hey! Remember when the hot page was for ALL, GOOD deck not just a whole bunch of budget and a forum deck? Now THOSE where the days...No offence to NorthernWarlord
well, if u guys dont like the decks on the front page, then why dont you make good decks instead??????????? not that hard, kek- may god bless ur'e souls
YOU THINK I HAVEN'T BEEN TRYING OR IT'S EASY TO GET A DECK ON THE HOT PAGE??!!!??
Don't bother SORIN-man, the hot pages in here are usually those that have long boring conversations about this and that, and keeps being discussed because nothing cool happens at the rest of the pages :D
Agreed. And soon I'll probably make like Gothy and GTFO because of that.
Hey Uganda, know when the last time I had a deck on the hot page that actually was a deck? Over a year ago. I've some crazy ass decks that probably deserve more love than they have gotten, but they don't because no one wants to see them. Everyone is so hyped on budget that they miss lots of good decks. Hell I had a deck that ruled the hot page top spot for two straight months! It may not have been a competitive deck, but it actually people talking about combos and deck engines more than just idle chitchat. Since then I've made a few new decks that are not great but are good in their own right. Do they get any attention? Nope. Oh, and is nice to see you actually type out your reply in proper English. Now I don't have yup reread your post six times to see what you said
wow guys, have u ever thought that just because u use expensive cards doesn't automatically make ur deck good? or worthy of the front page? just saying- may god bless ur'e souls
Expensive cards are expensive because they are good. It's been proven plenty of times that decks with value tend to win more than decks without value. I've personally spent around 5 years to get top 8 in legacy, using only commoncards, and the closest I ever got was to get an average of 2 wins out of 6 battles, and I'm pretty intense/involved once I start up on a project. Several times pro-people have had no idea what to play, so they've taken what has gotten to be called "good stuff", smashing random value into a deck and see where it got them, and they've won with it due to a surprise effect. Value wins. It's sad but it's the truth...When I build decks, I rarely build them based on value, and in fact I almost always pick cards not used by the pro's,but regardless of that, my builds often seem to have a high price, which is unintended. Magic as a hobby is not cheap! Budget decks don't win that much because they are restricted in what you can put into them, and budget cards are cheap because the cards are not wanted by the larger community, aka they are not considered good cards.I'm the sort of person who would root on the budget deck versus the pro-deck, but reality doesn't make that happen a lot, so as a winning strategy budget decks is not cutting it, and that's a fact.Now this place attracts different people from different layers of magic, and the largest group will always be the happy newcommers who've just been taught the game and wants to show the world what they've made in order to get advice or brag about it. Then we get the skilled players who've been through the magic cauldron and still likes the game despite that they've been beaten senseless by pro's. And the pro's themselves are here to find equalminded people but knows that it's a haystack, so often tries to be silent so they won't become mentors, wasting valuable time on noobs.What we really need is a split between groups, which can be done by tags. There is the obvious need of a "competitive" tag which I have tried to build up in mill. I mark my own decks with stuff like "experimental", "competitive", "very competitive" or "near competitive". A serious part about being competitive is that you win, so people should only use the tag "competitive" if their deckdesign has actually won in a tournament.A split in level will mean that people will get thrown out of conversations if they do not know their stuff, and eventually pro-decks will be talked about by pro-players, while budget stuff will be talked about by the less competitive players. It will reflect on the top-converstaions, as budget players are simply more numerous, so when you seek out pro's, you will actually have to search posts with less likes...-May evolution evolve your extremeties
Wicked is right. There needs top be a split. I'm far from a pro player, but I do like to make (and physically own) some of my more competitive decks. My infect and burn decks are strong enough that they could potentially place in top 8. I don't know though because tournaments aren't my thing, but I have them to challenge my friends that DO frequent tournaments. I prefer kitchen table magic myself, but I'm no slouch. And I only will buy an expensive card if it is really the only thing that will make my deck work properly. Or if it could potentially break am existing deck, like how my 8 rack deck has waste not and deathrite shaman in it as an experimental deck engine. But at the same time I have a budget blue white deck that only has birds and door of destinies and it can kick the shit out of some rather expensive decks consistently. Why? One, because no one expects tribal birds rofl, and two, it presents am unorthodox challenge of cheap flyers that mass attack and get stupid huge if left alone. Just because it's expensive, didn't make it unbeatable. Strategy is the whole key to magic. Don't have it, and you won't get far on luck alone.
I never base a deck off the total price the Vault QUOTES you . Store prices are different, and the deck doesn't have to be one that you buy! A Control deck can have Cancel instead of Dissolve or a burn deck can have Shock instead of Lightning Bolt.......The idea is what the deck is, not the cards. Except combo decks
Can you have 2 jayces? Or are they just super identical twins
You can have up to 4 of a card in a deck. However if you are refering to having two DIFFERENT Jaces, e.g. Jace Beleren and Jace, Memory Adept, then you can have up to 4 of each
You should add snapcaster mage.
That's a really expensive addition considering this isn't a very expensive deck
but the additional utility it provides is worth the value m8- may god bless ur'e souls
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I understand that, but when a single addition to a deck is going to cost what the deck is already worth, then you might as well just make a new deck with the rest of the expensive spells that go in that type of build. So unless you happen to have 4 snapcaster mages just lying around, it's not worth and extra $200 just to add a single set of a card
Checkout my decks RB Card Destruction (search it)
this could use Oboro, Palace in the Cloudshttp://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Discussion.aspx?multiverseid=74206!Bye
nice deck, but i think the land count is kinda low, and that makes crabs and increasing confusion less effective (and i believe I.C. is kind of the finisher so you dont hav to run all 4), maybe taking out 2 increasing confusions and adding 2 terramorphic expanses or an Oboro Palace in the clouds as posted above me
What about sphinx's tutelage???? It's good with mill
I'm currently cleaning up my "follows" and since you were active during 2019, (with this deck) I'm keeping you as a person to follow!hah! Would you believe that I haven't upvoted this deck before now?Funny stuff with ugandan, had forgotten about that :D
Fraying insanity doubles all mill done in a turn. Couple that with archive trap and that’s a lot of cards.