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So, I came across a pretty intense combo to kill off my opponents in a single turn. Main combo: Mikaeus, The Unhallowed + Blood Artist + 2x Fume Spitter. Sacrifice one Fume Spitter, and drop a -1/-1 counter on whatever creature (Even Mikaeus, if you have to.) Then sacrifice the other to put a -1/-1 counter on the other Fume Spitter than recurred itself, due to undying, and continue to repeat this process until your opponent is dead with the life siphon from Blood Artist. Edited 6/28/2012. Took out Curse of Death's Hold and replaced with Heartless Summoning. Same effect that you need for half of the mana cost. (Unsure if this combo would work with using Undying Evils on both Fume Spitters or not, since when they are recurred, they may be considered completely new creatures, and may not have undying any more.)
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Hate to throw a this in, but.... - and + counters don't destroy each other just cancel each other's effects... they are still there so the fume spitter will just die once more.
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The two counters cancel each other out. So once the -1/-1 counter gets put on the +1/+1 counter both will cease to exist, and niether will still be there.
I am a level 3 Judge the statement "The two counters cancel each other out. So once the -1/-1 counter gets put on the +1/+1 counter both will cease to exist" that is correct to be more precise it happens instantaneously hopefully there is no more future arguing.
Want to try again? Last time I checked the rules, opposite counters will remove each other before another counter is put on. Therefore, a creature with a +1/+1 counter that has a -1/-1 counter put on it would just have the +1/+1 counter removed.
" A state-based effect provides that if there are both +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on the same card, they are removed in pairs until only one type remains."
It returns with a +1/+1. If you give it a -1/-1 they are both removed as a pair, like you quoted. The fume spitter is still alive at 1/1 And your combo doesn't work...sorry. maybe try adding a few curse of deaths hold. Your fume spitters would die, but thanks to undying they'd come back, the spitters would stay at 1/1, and your combo would work. Nice one. :)
Hmmm, you're right. I forgot that Mikaeus had the static +1/+1...That could be an issue...
But if you curse yourself with curse of deaths hold in the middle of your combo, No worries. :)
Agreed, changes have been made. I feel like once m13 comes around, there could be a lot of changes for the better to be made to this deck, such as the multi-tutor and the new lilliana.
I realized that I've been going about this all wrong. Why run Curse of Death's Hold when there is Heartless Summoning in standard that gives the same effect for half of the mana, and it helps me get Mikey out?
Cool idea :) Not many combo-decks in standard! :D
Nice idea, check the rules! Also check my deck, I need all the help from community to do it just right. Here's the link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=351250 Thanks.
And here's a slightly more definitive answer: "121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it. See rule 704."
Just thought of something.... Your blood artist is gonna be pretty vulnerable. Most decks have stuff to deal with tiny creatures, especially one that is only sustaining itself with a +1/+1 counter. Do you know of any cards to give him hexproof or boost his toughness enough before the curse kills him?
There are ways to give him hexproof, just not in Black. I don't know about ways to up his toughness, exactly, except for with Mikaeus, and maybe some Stromkirk Captains.
Maybe you could run a few lightning greaves to protect him. Shroud may even be better than hexproof, that way the curse can't affect him.
Uhhh, number of problems here, Cap'n. First off, this is for standard, so no Greaves. Secondly, Just because a creature has shroud doesn't mean that the curse won't affect him. The curse is a global effect and will still give him the -1/-1. Shroud just means that he can't be targeted, by anything.
Then just do swiftfoot boots. Standard, and mikaeus can resurrect him still when the curse gets him, and he'll be safe from any possible lightning bolty cards.
Cool idea, ive also been working on an "infinity" combo. Could you check it out for me? i usually play standard and i need help formatting this to function in legacy http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=350376 Thanks :)
Thanks! I'm not huge on Legacy, but I'll see what I can do to help.
I like this deck and it works as you describe it in at the top but it doesn't work with Heartless Summoning in here. It actually will make the entire deck stop working when it is in play. -1/-1 counters and -1/-1 effects are not the same thing. Both Curse of Death's Hold and Heartless summoning will kill this deck. Think of it this way, an effect that gives -1/-1 basically diminishes the creatures default power and toughness. It does not give it a -1/-1 counter. So effectively you will have a 0/0 creature with a +1/+1 counter on it keeping it alive. The combo you want to do still works though. You have Mikaeus, The Unhallowed + Blood Artist + 2x Fume Spitter in play. You sac 1 fume spitter and put a -1/-1 counter on Mikaeus. 1st spitter dies and comes back with undying as a 1/1 with a +1/+1 on it. You sac the second spitter to put a -1/-1 counter on the 1st spitter making it a 1/1 again and the 2nd spitter comes back with undying as a 1/1 with a +1/+1 counter on it. You then sac the 1st spitter again to put a -1/-1 counter on the 2nd spitter and then you just keep going until Blood Artist has killed them off. No additional -1/-1 effect or counter is necessary. Good luck with the deck!
With Mikaeus in play, the Fume Spitter's are actually 2/2's. Now, for some reason, in a tired oversight, you are right, I don't actually need the Heartless summonings, since Fume Spitters have sacrifice abilities. Now, I suppose that heartless summoning is useful in terms of helping me get Mikey on the board. The Fume Spitters are used to remove the +1/+1 counters from each other with their sacrifice effect.
oh yeah, thats what i get for going on memory and not rereading the card, forgot about the +1/+1 effect from Mikaeus. Either way its a fun combo, props. On the positive you don't need to start the combo with putting a -1/-1 counter on Mikaeus and can instead start by putting it on the 2nd fume spitter.
I am having a bit of a debate on if I want to run the summonings anyway, seeing as they aren't necessary. Was thinking of maybe more spot removal to last until I can get Mikey out. If I run the summonings, I can't play anything else until Mikey is out, seeing as the other combo pieces are 1-toughness creatures. Maybe run a few more lands even.
I have a deck very similar to this check it out http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=352250
If you really love this then about having card such as black sun and Life's Finale in your sb. Apostle's Blessing is another good a. At most you should only have 3 heartless summoning. Good deck by the way :-)
Its a good idea. But its difficult to pull this combo off, seeing as Mikaes is a 6 drop. But definitely worth trying out.
Thank you all. First time that I've had a deck hit top deck in the few years that I've been on this site, so I must say that I am very proud of this deck.
kick- freaking-ass!!!!
Blightsteel Is Back! Feedback needed thanks Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=356934