Kazzong, Hokey, and Artifacts

Just as a side note ... m15 is like the most freaking awesome set ever, in my opinion. It throws back to so many old cards, and it looks like magic is turning back into the wild west it once was. Don't believe me? Look at the new Ob Nix, or Circle of Flames, or Act on Impulse (Well of Fortune anyone?), or freaking CHIEF ENGINEER. If there is a card that will be banned in legacy, it's that last one, because he is ridiculously overpowered, especially combined with affinity or his fellow vedalken buddies or token generators.

ok, so to answer your question as to whether convoke and affinity stack, yes. :)

Whew ... I just barely got the link in that comment before the 30min edit period expired.

If convoke and affinity stack .... you could summon a myr overseer WAY too soon.

T1 - Seat of the Synod, Memnite, Ornithopter (drat, I misspelled that before!)
T2 - Darksteel Citadel, Chief Engineer, Cathedral Membrane (tap Memnite)
T3 - Ancient Den, Holy crap; Mycosynth Golem costs 0 mana (11 base cost - 7 from affinity for artifacts - 4 convoke, use all creatures)

That's insane. It's also perfectly possible to cast Master Transmuter turn 2 with Chief Engineer's help.

Is there something I'm missing, or is chief engineer designed to speed artifact decks up to the point where they can win in legacy tournaments? 'Cause that's what I'm looking at.

Oh, and speaking of legacy ... platinum angel is a must. If you could get it out on turn 3 (master trans on turn 2) with a deck like this (with metallurgeon and dark steel citadel floating around) you might stand a real chance against pretty much every deck in existence.

One last jest ... who needs tolarian academy? We have Chief engineer now. =)

Does affinity for artifacts stack?

I don't think that it does. but I could be wrong... best way to find out is to check the comprehensive rules on wizards of the coast official site. I will look and find out.

Edit: I am completely wrong. it does stack. :) you have more than a single instance of affinity, then each of them has an effect on the card. :) so having chief engineer and the Golem that gives artifacts affinity... dang.

Hmm ... dear wizards, we are running out of expensive golems. What should we do? XD!

throw in etched monstrosity, of course.

Have Vedalken Archmage in play.
Have Ornithopter (or another free artifact creature) in play.
Have Mirran Spy in play.

Now use Master Transmuter's ability. Return Ornithopter to your hand. Now replay Ornithopter. You get to draw a card for Vedalken Archmage. And you get to untap Master Transmuter because of Mirran Spy.

Keep repeating as long as you have mana. Keep putting down artifacts and drawing.

Keep bringing in the fatties, keep replaying Ornithopter, keep drawing cards. :)

To ensure that you have the mana, you might consider mox opal. Unless mirran spy requires an artifact creature. In which case, my sure what to tell you.

Well ... Mirran Spy is triggered by an artifact and targets a creature.

Question guys. Want to build a deck around Words of Wind.

Questions: I have Words of Wind in play.
1) I play a Divination.

What happens? Do I play 1 mana to return two permanents to each player's hand. Or do I pay 1 mana to play, Divination, and get 1 permanent returned to each player? Or do i have to pay 2 mana to return 2 permanents to each player's hand.

Want to build a deck around it. Either with creatures that have special "when creature enters play" or "when creatures leave play" abilities.

Make the deck heavy with draw spells...and keep bouncing away.

KnightoftheHokeyPokey, yes... I know it is triggered by an artifact which Mox Opal is... and it adds the blue mana that master transmuter needs to swap creatures, and it is free to put out. but it isn't a creature... so it does have some drawbacks if you want to swap creatures I guess.

and Jessie.... I don't know. I will have to check out words of wind and let you know.

I will answer your Q Jessie.

Here you go Jessie;

draw card at start of turn
Play divination - goes on stack
Divination resolves (draw 2 cards)
Activate Words of wind in response to resolution of Divination, target Ornithopter (why not?)

Words of wind works like a Circle of Protection or Throne of Bone ... one activation per target source. If you had two of them in play, you could pay 2 to return 2 permanents to it's (their) owner's hand(s)

And ... WHAT IS WITH YOU AND BOUNCE JESSIE?! :)

It is my favorite....if it is like this: KnightoftheHokeyPokey is known for being a smart ass, and Kazzong is known for being kind and always suggesting decent cards, and surewhynot is known for his solid deck building...and Puschkin is known for knowing rules...I want to be known for either:

1) Guy who makes good bounce decks, or
2) Guy who makes really fun Theme decks.

So...with your answer, Activate words of wind in response of Divination. So, it is one bounce per draw spell (no matter if the spell tells you to draw 1 or 7 cards)? You can't activate Words of Wind twice since Divination tells you to draw two cards?

And yep, you guessed it, I want to build a deck around Words of WInd card.
Problem is...it makes myself and my opponent return a permanent to my hand. I could use phasing (is that even still used nowadays, creatures that fade out?) or I could use cards that have "when leaves play" and "when enters play," abilities. So, If i have to bounce my stuff, it will hurt my opponent.

That's a real good idea. Also, you should consider darksteel ignot or ornithopter to make that return barely matter.

Phasing is never used. Ever. It's still a rule, but it's less common than shadow.

And my official title is Weenie Madman. :)

Idea would be this:

1)Play my creatures with Phasing. Have them phased out. Then have Words of Wind in play. Play 3 or 4 card drawing spells. Each of us return 3 or 4 permanents.

2)Then, during my next upkeep, all of my creatures phase back into play. Then I attack (and hopefully those 3 or 4 permanents were creatures that were bounced) with my creatures. Then my creatures phase back out.

3)I play 3 or 4 more draw spells, bouncing 3 or 4 more permanents. My creatures phase back in. And I attack again. If my creatures are phased out, they can't be bounced with Words of Wind.

IT is a different take on Words of Wind...most use Enchantresses.

That's quite a devastating strategy. You could use some serious board wipe.

The only issue I see is that you have to carefully play your creatures so they phase together.

I think you should call it Warp Speed.

http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/the-wind-of-phasing-words/

I called it something else :)

Question. I play Arcane Denial It tells me to draw a cards at the beginning of my untap phase. So, would I draw a card before I start to phase my creatures back into play?

Yes or no ... if two effects are simultaneous, you choose the order in which they resolve ... :)

Awesome. So, would play Arcane Denial, counter their spell. Then, during my upkeep, i would, instead of drawing a card, bounce one of their creatures with Words of Wind, then phase my creatures back into play.

I am so going to make a word of winds deck.

And I am pretty sure that you can activate it for each cards that you draw. So two times per divination played. :)

http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/the-wind-of-phasing-words/

Will you please so look at it.

Sorry, you can't activate an ability more than once if it's target is singular. Perhaps you think that you could draw one card, activate words of wind, then draw another card, but this is not so. That would take 2 separate spells on the stack. If it read "draw 1 card; draw one card at the end of your turn" THEN you could activate words of the wind twice.

If I could activate words of the wind twice when I drew multiple cards, I could activate a "whenever a source you control deals damage" ability 3 times when I cast Cone of Flame.

So, something like Divination isn't as strong since it will only make Words of Wind be activated once :(

Hmm.... I am not so sure about that. I will have to do some more digging. The wording says when you draw a card you can activate it. Of it said something like: "When a spell out ability causes you to draw cards then you may pay.". Then I would agree with you, because it is a little more specific. But it doesn't. :(

I will email wizards at some point today and see what they say.

Awesome!!!

Ok just thought of a card for your bounce deck...
Azorius aethermage.

When a permanent you control gets bounced, you can pay 1 and draw a card. :)

Thanks, will look into it. :)

It has white splash, so no go for my bounce deck.
But I can build a deck around it. Or try to.

Hmm ... please bounce splicers. That would make my day!

No go for the words of wind deck?

It has white in it's mana cost. I am running mono blue...so there would have to be a lot of changing to put it in.

However, never made a bounce deck that is both white and blue. So i could do an entire deck around Azorius aethermage :)

Ok. I didn't know you were running it mono blue. That makes sense then.

For some reason I was thinking that you thought that I was suggesting it for your cephilid constable deck. Which is also mono blue.

Yep, never tried to splash colors with blue bounce. but Azorius Aethermage is one of those cards like Tolarian Entrancer (another card you showed me) that just begs to be broken.

I see. :). Could be interesting.

Ok. Here is my take on words of wind bounce. :)

http://www.mtgvault.com/kazzong/decks/winds-of-change/

Alright. Cloudstone Curio and Azorius Aethermage! They are begging to be broken, and I shalt do it!

That would be awesome. :)

Cloudstone Curio...it does combo with a lot of stuff. :)

Including Azorius Aethermage!

Don't you dare! I am the bounce guy! lol
Go for it, when you get it done, send a link. It will definitely have my love.

Yessir. I'll get right on it.

Don't forget your good friend, Vedalken Mastermind.

That's bounce ... on a stick.

Yep, he rocks.

Ore he's awesome. :)

Steel yourself for more puns!

"Steel yourself"
ugh...
lmao

Triggered effects and activated ablitities are different. The combat damage card draw is a trigger, the tap ability is an activated effect.
Usually an activated ability will require the artifact to tap, or for mana to be paid, or both.
So all the Mox, Black lotus, springleaf drum, lotus petal, mana crypt and whatnot are all activated abilities.
Think of static ablities, the bident has the combat damage card draw. It doesn't have to be activated because it's always there, it's just triggered by an event.

Thank you, Couch.

Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient

That is the card in question. Was thinking about trying to take advantage of that card. I want to make a deck around Kurkesh.

Like Power Matrix, artifact, tap it to give a creature +1/+1, trample, flying, first strike.

So, If Kurkesh is in play. Power Matrix is in play. And two creatures are in play.

1) Can I tap Power Matrix and pay 1 red mana (via Kurkesh) to give the two of my creatures the pump up that Power Matrix provides?

2) Or would just one of my creatures get the pump up Power Matrix provides?

And artifacts with ":" count too right?

Like an artifact has 5: do 2 damage.
If Kurkesh is in play...I pay 5 mana to do 2 damage.
Can i then pay 1 red mana (via Kurkesh) and copy the artifact/5 mana ability, to do 2 more damage?

Yes. It says you may choose new targets, so you can target the same thing twice.

Does that count for both the Power Matrix example and the artifact that has "5: do 2 damage."

Another question. What about something like Trading Post.
It says to, for example, Pay 1 colorless and Tap it: Discard a card and gain 4 life.

So...if Kurkesh is in play. I pay 1 red mana to copy the spell. What happens? Do I gain 8 life? IF so...do I have to discard another card? Or just 1 card?

Same thing with Trading Post...It says to pay 1 colorless and tap it: Sac an artifact: Draw a card.
So...if I have Kurkesh in play and pay the 1 extra red mana...what happens? Do I have to sack two artifacts to draw two cards? Or do I sack one artifact, draw one card THEN PAY 1 red mana for Kurkesh and draw another card?

One more question. Traveler's Amulet reads: Sac it to search for a land and put it into your hand.
IF I have Kurkesh in play and pay the 1 extra red mana...what happens? Do I get to search for two lands? OR since the Amulet is sacked, do I get the option to copy it?

The copy from Kurkesh is never cast/activated. It just appears on the stack. Therefore, you do not have to pay the casting cost of the original spell. This is the same as copying a spell with echo mage, or a triggered ability with strionic resonator.

I dare you to bring strionic resonator as well. :)

Yep, it is in there too...how did you guess (i.e. Resonator)? lol
Having extreme trouble making decks latetly.
This one has Kurkesh, Trading Post, Shrapnel Blast, Staff of the Flame Magnus, Resonator, Witches' Eye.

It is a mess.
Haven't even started to add in red creatures yet.
Need to take a break from deck building.

My Architects of Will deck crumbled on itself...now Kurkesh looks to do the same. lol

Final question. What about an artifact that sacks?
Mindslaver. Pay 4, tap and sack it...and you get to use your opponent's next turn.

So...question...when you pay 4 and sack Mindslaver CAN YOU PAY 1 RED MANA and end up getting 2 turns via Mindslaver?

One more...same deal.

Altar of Dementia: "Sacrifice a creature: Target player puts a number of cards equal to the sacrificed creature's power from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard."

So...when you sack a creature, can you pay 1 red mana via Kurkesh, to make your opponent mill his library TWICE?

Yes ... the sacrifice is part of the activated ability's cost, which you are not paying. You will mill the opponent twice. If you copy a spell with X in it's cost, X is set to 0 (yes, I know that sucks)

And the Mindslaver question, same deal?

Dear goodness Jessie ... if you copy the spell, you don't have to pay ANY of it's casting costs! Not a ONE! That includes sacrifices as part of the cost of casting! :)

I would personally run echo mage, brimstone mage, and company to annoy the ever-living-shit out of my opponents. Oh, and volt charge as well.

Prepare yourself for a deck of epic lulz.

That's right ... I have "copy instant or sorcery spell 4 times for UUR" with Echo Mage and Kurkesh out. Oh, and why not bring Thaumaturge along too! And I choose ... cone of flame, targeting 3 creatures, so it costs RR. That's 5 cone of flames for UURRR. 5 lightning bolts, 5 shocks, and 5 spark jolts (minus the scry). Lulz.

For the mega-Lulz, bring satyr firedancer along for 4 more lightning bolts, and 4 more shocks if there's a second opponent, and 4 more spark jolts minus scry if there's a 3rd. In total, that's 27 burn spells for UURRR. Ouch.

Along comes Snapcaster Mage, and away we go again!

You sir, had me at "hello."
:)

http://www.mtgvault.com/knightofthehokeypokey/decks/budget-rotc/

Not as powerful a final product, but annoying enough. Kurkesh is freaking awesome.

Imagine Time Vault and Kurkesh together. For 3 mana take 3 turns in a row. Of course...it is uber banned/expensive.

Wouldn't that be .. 1 extra turn per 1 red mana.

Also, you would get 4 turns for 3 mana. (1 from time vault + 1 from kurkesh - 1 skip turn to untag time vault) + 1 tap time vault.

Finally, paradise mantle on kurkesh, and the combo is infinite.

Yes. It would be the turn you played Time Vault (turn 1). The turn after Time Vault (turn 2), then the turn that Kurkash bought you (Turn 3).

Four turns for 3 mana...explain again? You mean...when it says to skip a turn?

Paradise gives you one mana, allowing you to pay for the Kurkesh...how would it be infinite?
It is amazing how many times I have been on the Hot Page...considering I am a so dumb sometimes. :)

Would it be like this?
Turn 1. Play Paradise Mantle
Turn 2. Play Time Vault.
Turn 3. Play Kurkash. Equip Mantle to Kurkash
Turn 4. Tap Time Vault gaining an extra turn. Pay 1 red, by tapping Kurkash, to gain another extra turn.

Now, what happens on my turns?
Turn 4, part 2, I get my first extra turn.
Turn 4, part 3, i get my second extra turn but skip it? Does my opponent get to go?

You don't skip the final turn from kurkesh, because the artifact doesn't need to be untapped. Therefore, you have 3 turns from the vault and one from kurkesh.

You would have to equip paradise mantle to another creature for the combo to infinite. Simply tap that creature to pay for kurkesh's ability on each new turn.

I think it is the latter. The spells resolve in order, not simultaneously.

30 total, since they trigger separately.

Very cool huh?
Kurkesh (not Kurkash...) has a lot of potential.
I made a "stone" deck with him.

Just passed a kidney stone a few days ago. Still hurts like hell. So...i noticed going through trying to make the Kurkesh deck...that there were a lot of cards with the word "stone" in them. Made a Kidney Stone and Kurkesh deck.

Ouch... Never had kidney stones, but heard they hurt an insane amount.

Indeed, was bent over at the Emergency Room...entire shirt soaked through with sweat. Everyone looking at me weird. It hurt like hell.

Sorry to hear that!

Still a little sore, but it is mostly over. :)

well, all is well that ends well, right?
Glad that you made it through. :)

Much appreciated.