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Here there be dragons...
This deck has been viewed 8,293 times.
how do you stay alive until you can do stuff? even midrange decks need an early game....I would run Hornets Nest as like a 3 of to stop the ground game while you durdle around building mana.
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Depending on your hand, you could wipe the board t3/t4. If you can t2 caryatid with a t3 map, you can anger t4 w/o losing caryatid.
That's a big 'if'. T4 is the... like, earliest you could actually play a creature capable of attacking the opponent. And you have /one/ Anger of the gods...One.That's like, the only way you'd survive against an aggro deck. This deck is going to fail more than it will succeed. It needs some work. Ugin is hardly even worth putting in here. If you haven't put down an Atarka and beat the crap out of your opponent before being able to play Ugin then the game is already likely not in your favor.You need better early game defense or you will get crushed. Relying on Sylvan Caryatids is not going to cut if, especially if one of them gets killed. They can't be burned, but anyone with a spell to buff their own creatures can take them down if you try to block with them and are unprepared. Personally, I would not play it. Too expensive and not effective enough. I'm not expert, but I can see that. Less Stormbreath Dragons, Less or no Kolghan, More lightning Shriekers and Forgestrokers.If you have Atarka out and can attack with even 2-3 dragons effectively, game is basically over. You'll be better off using Forgestrokers to bypass defenses, and Lightning are faster and more effective than Stormbreath Dragons due to trample. They can sneak in and deal massive damage when Atarka is out.
To each his own play style. Yes that is a big if. You can always board in more anger. Don't forget that drown in sorrow is also in the deck. Chances are that I wouldn't be blocking with caryatid. As soon as I can update cockatrice, I'll test this out. While I disagree with some of what you said, I do think that cutting down on stormbreath/kolaghan (as much as I like them) is probably a good idea.
I like Jund Whip Better
Cool Story bro, needs more dragons
Psshh atarka's the only good dragon in jund besides the rakdos one. Really cool story bro? What are you 12? A better response would be Jund Whip needs more answers and I'd definitely agree
I was actually just making a joke, no need to get so uppity! I actually agree, Jund Whip is better, but Jund whip is worse than Abzan and Sultai whip. However Stormbreath is the best dragon in Jund, not sure if you count sarkhan but he is awesome too, Atarka is not a good card although I play a single Kolaghan in SB for mardu its not amazing, just solid against the control decks
I think Atarka is a great card. I do run stormbreath in the SB and consider putting them in MB i just need to find a way to make Jund Whip stronger i will find a way lol it needs more removal definitely. I think Jund Whip has a chance against the others it just needs more thought
I've tried it before, its simply not as good as the other graveyard centric decks, and it can't fall back on Siege Rhino if it goes tits up
I'll find a way
I would drop both God's and definitely loose Ugin he's just plain bad IMO also I'm not really seeing the point in the Fountain you can run fine with 24 lands. I would replace those 5 cards with 2 Crucibles, 2 more Anger and 1 more Courser.
Xenegos + Atarka 24 damage in one swing.......you should probably try to figure out WHY something is in the list before you dismiss it.
I know exactly WHY it's in the deck and I still feel like it should be dismissed. It's a win more combo with focus on one creature at a time. I think getting a crucible out for 1 less will be a bigger threat given it's pump to all dragons. Allowing for dragons to begin coming out at 5 mana in this Dragon deck. In addition I don't really feel it was worth down voting me simply because I didn't go into depth on one particular thing we did not agree on.
see, its funny that you downvoted me based on as assumption as your downvote didnt come from me. Xenegos/Atarka is a combo kill that happens out of nowhere, it is not winmore, its a way to catch back up in a game that is otherwise lost. Crucible does not do that,a s it requires more than two cards to be good.
Sorry my assumption, I've taken it back. I may very well be wrong it does happen more often then I'd like. I will also add that I tend to agree with most your comments on this site and consider you to be a very knowledgeable deck builder. I'm sticking strong with my opinions on Ugin tho. It's a bad Planeswalker!
UGin is an excellent planeswalker, it just requires a different kind of deck. like the green devotion decks or the constellation decks currently being piloted by the Pantheon guys and Brad Nelson at the Open this weekend. He may be better in Modern, ad an alternative, or partner, to Karn, but that has yet to be seen. you dont need to take back your downvote, the system is a bit of a joke, which is why I dont use it, I appreciate the sentiment and kind words, though.
Frontier Siege with Ugin in the the mostly mono green somewhat control shell is good. Mono green devotion to ramp hard, get hornet queen out with frontier siege and make your 1/1 deathtouch dudes fight, or ramp harder for more good stuff.
I'm not as good as the Pantheon guys obviously, but I think they got it wrong this weekend. Ugin has a place in standard, I'd like to see it in Temur Combo, and the Atarka+Xenagod is not a good combo in the current meta because there is just too much removal flying around, and taking your t5 off to play a card that won't do anything is a really bad idea when erase is so popular and 5 is the slot that ends the game or sets midrange very far ahead
you arent taking t5 off if you have an early game. you play xenegos on t5, pump an existing dude, then t6 play atarka. the competitive relevance of this deck is not what the conversation is about, imo, as this is clearly not tier 1, and instead just appears to be a fun tribal build. Ugin is terrible in Temur combo, as it kills all of your pieces, which is exactly the opposite of what you want to do. Besides, once you start going off, you dont want to stop at 8 mana, you just want to make an infinite/infinite genesis hydra, find Nylea, and win. (that deck is sweet)
You have 2 coursers to play before xenagod... and i was thinking more ghostfire then ultimate in the temur, and someone might want to take it to a tournment, I'd advise strongly against that, but they might
I mean, at that point, youre still not taking turn 5 off, youre just finally doing something.....and as far as Ugin, theres already a pretty good 2 card combo that does that.....Basic Mountain + Lightning Bolt. I dont think any combo deck is trying to Ugin Ghostfire anyone...I like the card, but its not good for that deck, imo
No you really are taking the turn off, Xenagod won't have the devotion and the best you can do is make a 4/4 that lacks trample, on turn 5, you face down the barrel of the gun against: Mardu, Abzan, Temur, Jeskai Ascendency, RDW, both ascendency combo decks. U/B Control has so much spot removal and counter spells i'd be very surprised if you pulled it off.
I mean, yeah, thats why its not really viable, but that doesnt make it bad here.
If it ain't viable, its bad
its casual. If you look at the VERY first comment on this deck, I suggested answers to aggro/midrange. I personally feel like the only tribal deck that is worth playing right now MIGHT be warriors, as they currently have a ton of tools, but I also think that people should experiment and build, I currently have 2 decks built that win, and I dont know why, because on paper, theyre terrible.
It doesn't say anywhere that it is casual, just says Standard. To be fair Temur combo is dodgy on paper, but Joey sold me! Warriors is interesting but unless it gets real lucky, it doesnt win after game 1
This maybe one of the only god chances we have to play dragon tribal in standard... all who don't are scrubs
friggin dragons...
Just play dragon storm in modern, that's far more fun!
Ok there are immediate issues that I see with both decks, most important being inconsistency. Bear with me as I want to try and help you fix this. Please feel free to take the suggestions however you wish, just trying to assist.- Focus: You have to ask yourself, what do you want this deck to do and design around that idea. Then comes the fine creative trimmings.- Land: 25 land in a 60 card deck (Even a dragon deck) is too much. The max I'd ever run in a deck ranging from 60-65 cards (even with landfall mechanic) is 22-24 cards depending on the mana curve and focus. Even then, most of the mana you have enters tapped. A suggestion would be to narrow down the land a bit to about 22-24 land with a lil more chance to have it enter untapped. Temples and the tarkir duel lands are useful, but try not to rely on them. - Creatures: I definitely support getting rid of Mogis and xenagos, the effects are always nice but I feel like you could do more with the effects of the Dragons (being a dragon-themed deck). I would definitely try to add a few more and balance out the number of Dragons you have, even if it means getting rid of a couple instant/sorceries. I would personally like to see: Stormbreaths (Pro white fun), Lightning Shrieker, Forgestoker Dragon, Destructor Dragon, Atarka and maybe 2-3 noxious dragons. They all provide a useful ability to use in either control or offense. However it is up to you. I would sideboard Kolaghan and maybe try and fit one in depending on how your deck flows after completion. - Instant/Sorceries/Enchants: I feel like they're semi-inconsistent. I can see that you're either going for the -1/-1 or destroy approach but you have 1 AoG, 2 Crux, 2 drown and 3 maps for sorceries. If you wish to go for more -1/-1's, maybe 4 bile blights instead of 2 BB and 2 Drowns. I would take out Anger of gods since you're using crux, its a toss up of going for more Anger or more Hero's Downfall as both can be useful However Hero's Downfall could get rid of those big problems better then Anger. I do like the Map the wastes for Fetch. Fetch is ALWAYS useful for Dragons. Also I would look into any useful enchants that can either delay your opponent or help you ramp out dragons a tad faster. I'll try to look for some for you. Crucible of Fire is one immediate enchat I'd recommend for any dragon deck!- Planeswalkers: Personally I don't think Xenagos (planeswalker) will be useful in the deck because it mana ramps based on the amount of creatures you have. He wont make a huge impact anytime soon because dragons do cost a lot. I think ugin could be an alternate late game board cleanser with his second ability, but just 1 of him. And Sarkhan is hit or miss. Only his first and second abilities are useful in this deck.The deck does have potential...it just needs some work. Again I love what your trying to do with it as I <3 Dragons. The deck's just gonna have to be fine-tuned and played with to get a good result. I'm also gonna ask a couple of my deck building buddies to look at this and get there opinions. Cheers!
again, Xenegos (God) + Atarka = 24 damage in one swing. it can win out of nowhere. There is plenty wrong with this deck, but Xenegos is not among the problems
That xenagos combo is fun and good but you run two of both, it is not a reliable combo. And even if you get it, the opponent might not see it the first time but the second time he wont fall for it again. And a deck like this need more earlygame, otherwise your dead before you can even cast atakar. Sylvan caryatid or what even the name if that thing is, is pretty good. Gets dragons out sooner and fixes your mana a bit more and it block some creatures.
To be honest i think Lava Axe dragon is a terrible card and the mana base is yucky right now.
@ Ninja/King: Totally not denying Xenagos's usefulness in the deck, if used right (especially with Atarka) He can easily swing for massive damage...but as King kinda hinted to, The first time an opponent sees it, He won't let it happen again if he can help it. And in a Dragon Tribal deck (least that is the theme) I know everyone has their own opinions but I feel like a Dragon deck needs options and a lot of the Standard dragons provide useful abilities to ruin a players day, its just getting them out quickly by T4-5 that's a pain in the behind and that's why I definitely agree with King as well, There needs to be a way to a least stave the opponent off for a bit in the early game.
How about putting in some Singing Bell Strikes, its a 2 drop but stops the opponent from attacking for 2 or 3 turns
Only reason i would run Xenagod is as a distraction, maybe he has a spell and he can see whats coming so he uses that precious mana on him to knock him out then you play something big and he may or may not have a counter for it.
22-24 lands wouldn't be good in a deck that's mostly 5 drops. To think you could get away with 22 is insane if you want to cast your stuff on time. Temple's are strictly better than the gain life lands. if you're going to be using Ugin, and paying for him, there's no reason not to pay for the temples. I'd be more comfortable running 6 fetches also. good luck. seems like it could be a fun deck but there are so many decks in the standard format that just tear this kind of stuff apart.
As far as lands are concerned, I think some pretty sweeping statements are being made here. Decks have won very competitive events with land counts ranging anywhere from 18-27. Obviously, you don't want to run anything that extreme in any typical deck, but mana is a very complex science and sometimes rules of thumb don't apply. With a mana curve that high, I think 24-25 lands is probably about right, especially in a deck running Courser of Kruphix. I personally don't agree with the mainboard Xenegos. I think OTK (One Turn Kill) combos are almost always gimmicky, but I will concede that it does get you the win a turn early if Atarka stays on the field long enough to attack. Just my $0.02 on the matter. Looks like a fun deck to play either way. Definitely capable of obliterating some unsuspecting FNM player a few times at least. Good luck!
See the Unwritten may be a card worth looking into for this deck. A possible 2 for 1 card for you.
I'm not going to knock the deck too much as i'm not very good at building decks but one thing I will say is this, this deck has nothing against a counter deck or someone playing red deck wins, the game would be over before it even got started.However that being said, i am so building this deck just for the fun of it. although as I dont have the scry or the fetch lands I could use some suggestions.
Feed the clan and some more removal like drown and anger would be a start right? I also have a few reaper of the wilds in my sideboard vs abzan, works great. Maybe an extra destructor dragon in the SB vs controll, it wrecks there planeswalkers
Lightning Shrieker is terrible. Its pretty much Lava Axe. I tried playing it at the prerelease and sucked. Horrible for limited, horrible in general. But I like the deck! +1
you obviously suck at limited. i got 2nd at my pre release with 3 shriekers in deck. It's lava axe, but can be shuffled and replayed...
Or you don't understand how horrible lava axe is. There is a reason you don't draft lava axe. Lava Axe is a second or third to last pick if you're running red, and only if there is the other cards are off color or absolute garbage. In limited it can be alright in the right deck, in constructed it is horrible.
well no shit but it's not horrible in limited like you stated previously. just letting you know
Never said it was horrible in limited, but I will say it isn't good in limited.
I think you guys underestimate Lava Axe, personally. It's 1/4 of your opponent's life total gone, in one card.
It's so much better than lava axe. SO MUCH. Definitely limited playable.No I do not care to expand upon my statement. I'm trolling here.
I played in 8 sealed events. Every time someone got 2 of them in their pool, they went 4-0 or 3-1, myself included. The mana cost is less restrictive than arrow storm, so it's easier to splash as well.The lack of flyers in limited allowed these to get in for damage most of the time. In limited you end up trading 1/1 flyers and killing the outlast reach guy in early-mid game, so the likelihood that they have blocks is pretty slim, outside of having a dragon themselves. The tempo loss of redrawing this card is minimal because in the event you didn't want to draw the card, you were probably losing the game to a big dumb Atarka or an Abzan battle-priest anyway, and losses to luck/variance happens in Magic are inevitable.Lightning shrieker either:----1-for-1's (which is basically everything in limited), whether your opponent has instant removal, a counter, or a 5/5 reach/flyer to block. Most of the decent removal is 5+ mana too.----gets your opponent for 5, because they have no blocks----1-for-none and gets in for damage since it has trample because they block with less than 5/5 and it shuffles back in----2-for-1, 2-for-none, 3-for-1 and anything better, because your opponent is low on life, or just stupid.----interacts with rare dragons and red/green sieges----but MOST IMPORTANTLY, gives the opportunity for your opponent to make wrong choices.How much of that does lightning axe do?
Where's a dragon that I can put into this deck?http://www.mtgvault.com/socalithurts/decks/standard-simic/
Destructor Dragon or Mindscour Dragon?
Like the idea, but to pull this off you need way more ramp. Nix some of the expensive, not great dragons for more ramp (noxious and destructor for example).Try 4 voyaging satyrs, 4 coursers, 1 Nykthos along with your caryatids. You can un-tap those crucibles and really pump out some mana.Check out my deck, it has too much ramp but you get the idea:http://www.mtgvault.com/polis/decks/grub-manazoids/
not jund read up on jund
The colour combination is nicknamed Jund, so yes, it is Jund
This is Jund. Jund is used as an identifier for the BRG colour shard. It may not be your typical Jund deck, but it is Jund none the same.
no jund is devour so you wound call it a black,green,red
you do not call a red-green stompy deck a gruul deck becaues of the coler combo
You are wrong on both accounts, yes you do.
If Jund is limited to devour why was one of the best decks in the Innistrad-Return to Ravnica standard season called Jund Midrange
well jund is not limited to devour and you can not call back white control a orzhova.
You can call it Orzhov, you can call your deck anyway you like, because it is your deck and therefore it is your property, you write the name down on the deck list. To me this is a Jund deck, but more importantly it is to the creator.
could i have some help with my agro deck? it's naya (color combo, not necessarily ability) featuring ferocioushttp://www.mtgvault.com/planeswalker999/decks/nayaferocious-budget-deck/
Ahahaha for the brackets I'll take a look!
I agree with a few earlier comments on here. I made a R/G bait standard deck thats friggin fun to play. But theres no early game in that deck or this one. Have you thought of running broodkeeper with the temur runemark?
Brood keeper? Remind me what the mark does.
Brood keeper pops out a 2/2 Red dragon with flying and fire-breatheing when you put an enchant aura on her.
Basically you're just offering your arse up to get comfortably 2 for 1ed
Ah. For some reason I was thinking of brood mother. Gothy, you should check out the deck that I played at fnm just cause.
Dragon Broodmother is a crazy good dragon! I recommend her in any dragon deck that has Red/green in it =)
Just as long as the format fits.
Link me up? http://www.mtgvault.com/gothy/decks/brainstorming-promised-land/ There is the new article, please spam it around for me, like you always do ;)
:)http://www.mtgvault.com/kjsj3/decks/junk-blues/
Speaking of Brood Mother I'm always reminded of the time I successfully had a Followed Footsteps on a Brood Mother. It got out of control, Fast. Was probably the first and last time it was ever successfully pulled off for any length of time.
Idk, assuming you're not playing against control most people don't mainboard enchantment removal. In which case you SB out brood keeper, @Gothy
Could you guys take a look at this for me? I'd love for you to tear it to pieces and tell me what it needs but just know I'm not running token generators for cash. Sorry to invade on your post good sir, I'm trying to play this tomorrow and need some advice!
Link?
As long as I get to be extra dickish ;)
wow im bad. lol forgot to link.http://www.mtgvault.com/fadedherbivore/decks/tempo-monks/
Why even design this before dragons?
There were lots of dragons before and there was no idea that Elders were returning, but personally, I prefer ftr silumgar!
Why not?
I am playing sultai midrange with assault formation, which may not be optimal, but I am giving it a try.
Good luck. Let me know how it goes.
do you really need 25 land in ANY deck?
If you want a better chance to cast spells etc, yes. I normally base the land count on what I'm playing and then work it from there.
There was an interesting article from Bennie Smith about playing Mardu in Miami, and he said that he wished he had had the 25th land, and I personally agree with these big midrange decks, however midrange looks to be going down, control might be able to challenge it with Dragons of Tarkir, especially with Narset and psedo-cryptic command