Brainstorming:Time of Control

by Gothy on 26 April 2015

Main Deck (60 cards)

Sideboard (15 cards)

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Deck Description

Uh Oh! The big demon is back! But this time, rather than firing massive Sphinx's realising what they want for dinner (Sphinx revelation... boom boom) they are using a more midrange approach to controlling the board.

I certainly believed control was dead but Wizards seemed to not like that the usually most expensive archetype in standard was dead... I wonder why! However, it really does add a new dimension to the meta game, because it won't be some fringe and usually terrible control deck, you're facing down 8-10 counterspells before sideboarding and each one of those has your most important threat's name on it. Moreover, with Silumgar, The Drifting Death and the plethora of spot removal, it is more difficult to go under... although not impossible.

So in this article, we are going to go through some counter- control (as in beating control not countering) and how control can avoid losing to the strategies I talk about, its worth reading both whatever deck you play, because information is so important in countering your opponents counter-counter tactics... lots of countering...

THE AGGRO PLAYER: Well lets face it, this is a damn good match up for you. I'm gonna go ahead and assume you're playing Atarka Sligh or RDW because they are simply the best options right now for the aggressive mage (you warriors players take note!!!) So you want to deal as much damage quickly, without revealing yourself to blow outs and then finish with burn, simple enough so far. However, there is a mechanic that really helps you, Dash, so you start dodging their non-spot removal and board wipes. You should definitely be running Zurgo Bellstriker and Goblin Heel-cutter because from experience, they are so horrible and perfect against control. Don't over commit to the board when you don't need to, force them to answer your board before you fire off your burn spell, game 1 you spam that board full of goblins (3 at a time, don't open yourself to a Bile Blight blow out) and then in game 2 you put in as much burn as you can, because their slower counterspells and the like have now been removed for cards like Drown in Sorrow, which you can now fight around with dash and burn. Also expect to throw away a few cards, make sure they perceive the card you want to sacrifice to the inevitable counter spell or kill spell by attempting to force damage with it, especially if its slightly larger but doesn't need to be there for you to win. Just force as much damage through and then burn them out, simples.

THE MIDRANGE PLAYER: Again, lets face it, this is not a good match up for you, they have counterspells and that is a nightmare to your beloved siege rhinos or Butcher of the Horde. Midrange vs Control becomes a war of attrition, especially with control's reliance on dragons, however you have access to walkers like Sorin, which is quicker and doesn't get next leveled by either Silumgars (Looking at you Elspeth) but can ruin their dragon plan and also rip a counterspell or downfall which is pretty good, however he also slips under the net a lot of the time because they aren't considering how much of a thorn in the side he can be. Just remember, if you play Sorin on a clear board, tick up! You need to be able to either out draw your opponent or drop so many threats they eventually run out of answers, this can be incredibly tough and be prepared to fight to play creatures by throwing other creatures under the counter spell bus, sorry this can't be more detailed, but I'm having trouble solving this problem myself!

THE CONTROL PLAYER: Well apart from cursing me for showing people how to beat you, you need to know the mirror match! Rule number 1 is never ever to tap out, try and draw more cards than your opponent and when you land a threat, you defend it!! Watch out for random damage, because that can swiftly add up to 20! Post board you want to be bringing in something to give you an extra angle of attack, Soul Fire Grand Master for example where you can have extra counters with the buy back and also an early attacker which they will have removed easily game one, but they won't have that much removal game 2!

Above all, all players need to be speedy at the start and then be patient, you need to wait until their shields go down before you resolve your game changer, for example I was playing mono red against Jeskai Control, he was on 4 and I ripped the Stoke the flames, I left it for 4 turns waiting for him to mess up, when he did I stoked him for the game... that was a game I shouldn't have won, but did!

Hope you enjoyed, leave a comment and a like if you so wish, it means a lot more to me than you think! You can find the official Gothy Brainstorming Twitter page here: https://twitter.com/Gothy_MTG so feel free to follow me!

Above all... keeeeeeeep Brainstorming

How to Play

Read the article!

Deck Tags

  • Standard
  • Brainstorming
  • Competitive
  • Control

Deck at a Glance

Social Stats

13
Likes

This deck has been viewed 3,987 times.

Mana Curve

Mana Symbol Occurrence

3292200

Card Legality

  • Not Legal in Standard
  • Not Legal in Modern
  • Not Legal in Vintage
  • Not Legal in Legacy

Deck discussion for Brainstorming:Time of Control

Yay, a control article!! :-)

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Posted 04 May 2015 at 15:04

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The one article that fails to make the hot page xD

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Posted 04 May 2015 at 17:34

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I'm sorry... What was that??

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Posted 09 May 2015 at 16:17

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ahahaha! Very Nice!

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Posted 09 May 2015 at 18:17

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Excellent! Love these articles!

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Posted 10 May 2015 at 05:54

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Cheers man! You're one of the guys who always comments and always likes, its great to know that the old faithful are enjoying the articles!

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 15:44

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I strongly disagree with your aggro player section.
As a U/B control player between my 3-4 foul tongues, 4 back waters, X radiant fountains(i run 2).
Red aggro is kind of a joke.

Abzan aggro, is much harder to deal with, I am yet to drop a game to mono red, and thats even with them being on the play.

While aggro is typically the downfall of control, in this meta this is not the fact.
Our only BAD match ups seem to be:
Mardu dragons and maybe G/W if we let them get their engines online.

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Posted 11 May 2015 at 19:42

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and yet pro tour saw control lose to mono red aggro in the finals...

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Posted 11 May 2015 at 21:53

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You can lose to it, doesn't mean it's a bad match up.
Mono red is my best match up hands down.

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Posted 11 May 2015 at 23:13

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Actually Mono-red beat two U/B dragons just in the top 8, including Adrian Sullivan's old school control. Red Aggro is never a joke, it is the best deck vs control flat out. In this standard particularly red munches on the face of contol because it has a crazy amount of burn. When the most played deck at the pro tour is mono red, it clearly must be one of the best decks. I have a 100% win record against U/B and Esper Dragons with my Mono red deck

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 12:44

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It used to be a bad match up early on in this format.
After you get all the outs to the burn as long as you don't keep janky hands you're golden.

I have:
3 foul tongue maindeck 1 sideboard
2 radiant fountains
4 back waters.

While that lifegain is alright, post board we bring in more instant speed removal(in place of thoughseize, and a few slower spells.) You just answer threat for threat and red runs out of gas much sooner than you do.

I generally will take out:
Thoughtsieze
Dissolve
rest varies depending on the build(some use thunderbreaks etc so they're met with other hate)

Drown in sorrow
ultimate price
the last foul tongue
extra copies of bile blight

all come in, all of our 2-3 mana removal stays in, scorn is an all star in this match up, even without a dragon in had due to the amount of lands red.

For the most part the red decks will side out their token cards as they're too slow vs control which has more copies of bile blight and drown in sorrow post board. They bring in more burn/hasty creatures(or thunderbreaks, outpost sieges etc) you just gas them out, thats all you have to do.

Red is and ALWAYS is a massive part of my local meta game, its really not the deck to be scared of as U/B control.(as sets currently stand, after we lose theros maybe.)

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 13:34

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I think we will have to agree to disagree because U/B is always the deck I want to be playing as the mono red player!

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 15:42

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Running bant control, I have had little to no issues against mono red and other aggro decks.

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 16:17

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I'm gonna have to say it must be the pilots or a dodgy build of it? All the people I've faced down at PPTQs and the like (our FNM is also very high standard!) the Atarka Sligh/ Mono red always seems to have the edge

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 16:58

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I will give the atarka build some credit, that deck is much better.
Mono red, even piloted but Mono-red fanatics and other great players, mono red just isn't as scary in this format as a control player.

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 17:02

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AS far as I am aware via overall top 8 showings the top 3 decks are:
1: esper dragons
2: abzan aggro
3: R/G aggro, RDW(almost exactly the same amount of showings, slightly in favour of R/G)

after that all the midrange decks start showing up.

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 17:20

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I'm not sure Esper dragons is the best deck in the format, and I really am not a fan of Abzan aggro, I've never had an issue with it playing Mardu (my usual deck #playingmardubeforeitwascool) my top 3 would be
1. Abzan Control
2. Esper Dragons
3. (Controversially) Mardu

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 18:02

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That list I posted was based on overall top 8 showings.

i'm really not a fan of abzan control at all... I think aggro is the better build for abzan

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 18:27

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I know, I was looking at goldfish too when I made my decisions. Only reason I say control over aggro is that I don't really have tough games against Abzan aggro, one game finished on 60+ life

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 18:45

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Again great article, thanks a lot Gothy, keeeep Brainstorming :)

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 11:08

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haha thanks man, might start a more deck orientated series called 'Deck storming' because I've been brewing like crazy recently!

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Posted 12 May 2015 at 15:43

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http://www.mtgvault.com/manfred1990/decks/mardu-tokenz/ Come and check this wonderful deck out! Mardu for lyf!

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Posted 15 May 2015 at 17:04

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Could you do an edh deck tech article or something? Played in a tournament last night, made top pod, became instant table target. Everyone lost to another player who pulled of the same combo I ran.

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Posted 16 May 2015 at 17:39

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I actually don't really like EDH but I'll consider it

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Posted 16 May 2015 at 18:43

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thanks for the help gothy

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Posted 21 May 2015 at 23:50

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No worry man

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Posted 22 May 2015 at 07:38

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Control was almost dead because they are busy dumbing down the game for years now (and control was the hardest to play). I mean, did you notice all the things they stopped to print? THings like dangerous upkeeps (or "true" upkeep costs in general)? Or symmetrical effects? Because you need brains to make them work. Or that there is only hexproof now but not shroud? There is a reason why they removed game mechanics like mana burn.

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Posted 26 May 2015 at 12:22

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I always figured they were just evolving the game. I'm not going to try and discuss the finer points of control because it's not my preferred style of play, so there's that. What I do want to touch on is the hexproof over shroud but you mentioned. While it has been a long while since they printed a card with shroud on it (I think helix pinnacle was the most recent. May be wrong on that), it's not that they didn't like the mechanic or that it was too hard to work around, but not being able to target your own stuff is incredibly frustrating. I think that that is the reason for hexproof being created, but shroud isn't gone. As for mana burn, considering that people would use it to kill people by making them trap all their mana for massive amounts of basically free damage, I can see why that had to go. It was ruining the fun of the game

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Posted 26 May 2015 at 12:38

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Excuse me, but how is giving your opponent extra mana and mana burning them more frustrating than, say, milling them to death or poisioning them to death or using a cheesy combo? By your reasoning, all of that should go, too. Also, giving your opponent mana is a) a rare thing and b) extremly risky because he might as well put that mana to good use and fry you instead! By the way, you don't generate mana for the opponent just by tapping their lands. Maybe that's where the confusion comes from. Only a select few cards give your opponent mana, Eladamri's Vineyard comes to mind.
Apart from that, the existance of mana burn forced you to make some strategic decisions whenever you generate excess mana yourself, for example when you Dark Ritual but only need one extra mana or when you have a Mana Flare in play and only need an odd amount. And, of course, there are some cards that just don't make sense anymore without mana burn, such as Power Surge.
So, all I see is a strategical option gone.

About Shroud and Hexproof "it's not that they didn't like the mechanic or that it was too hard to work around, but not being able to target your own stuff is incredibly frustrating" <= Tell my *why* it is frustrating? Because it's hard to work around? Technically a creature with shroud instead of hexproof could be a bit stronger or cost one less mana to compensate for it being not targetable by yourself. That's actually the same line of thinking why there are so few symmetrical cards or dangerous upkeeps these days. We have Honor of the Pure now instead of Crusade because players couldn't wrap their little minds about the idea that their card could sometimes beef up opponent's creatures, too. You can call it "it's frustrating for players" while I call it "players are getting lazyminded" but in the end, all of this IS a dumbing down of things.

Wizards simply caters their biggest demographic and those aren't control players because, as I said, that's the most complicated deck type to play. Instead we get preconstructed decks and block mechanics, tribals and guilds that make it very VERY obvious which cards should be played together. It is ...
... wait, it's me ranting again. I should stop doing that :)

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Posted 26 May 2015 at 13:16

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Dumbing down magic... bring back the most hated by judges ability in morph and then add mega morph, just to annoy judges a little bit more. Pro level magic is certainly getting more interesting and complex, whilst magic is a lot more understandable and thus more enjoyable for new players, card quality on the whole has improved and the printing of cards that are incredibly broken is going down (cruise and dig excluded) and being a Spike is for sure better than it was in the 90s, really don't think mana burn would make a huge impact on standard, and since standard is the main focus for WOTC they might as well scrap the confusing mechanic that now doesn't add anything to the game. Shroud over hexproof is to make a bigger advantage for the casting player, look at bogles, hexproof has been around a lot longer, they just renamed it. Of course Wizards cater to their key demographic, they are a business and there is little point harking back to the 90s (why don't people take Heroin anymore like in the 90s?) Anything that helps new players yet still sets a complex challenge to those higher up the chain is good in my humble opinion

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Posted 26 May 2015 at 20:56

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I know that simply tapping a land with my own card doesn't add mana to the pool, but I was actually referring to stuff like turn control (i.e. Mindslaver). I'm not some know nothing player, but I guess I just worded it wrong

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Posted 26 May 2015 at 23:37

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How many cards do exist that allow you to take over control of a player's turn, eh? I count exactly 3. And in many cases you can call yourself lucky if the opponent uses your mana to mana burn you. Mindslaver costs 6 to cast and 4 to activate, that mana could have been invested in direct damage spells that do approximately as much damage as you do via mana burn during the opponent's turn. The other 2 cards are the Zendikar Sorin Makov where it's the ultimate (planeswalker ultimates do nasty stuff, whats the point?) and Worst Fears which has a casting cost that puts that card directly in the crap (mythic) rare bin.
It was less the wording and more that "turn control" didn't even cross my mind as being an issue. 3 cards!

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Posted 27 May 2015 at 07:24

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And of the three, I brought up the one that actually is worth it: Mindslaver. I take it you've never heard of a Mindslaver lock then? Because we all know that wasn't a real thing, but obviously well after mana burn was abolished. What I'm referring to was the fact that I've seen legacy decks that will burn someone using only their land and then, since they are tapped out, they just lay into them. Win by mana burn? No, that's not something you would likely see. Using it to reach a win? Yes, that's likely.

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Posted 27 May 2015 at 16:45

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I know Mindslaver pretty well. What I am objecting is that you are proposing a rules change based on a single card. Isn't that a bit silly? I am playing since 1994 and lived through the Black Summer and Combo Winter, endured the reign of Trix, Fruity Pebbles and all sorts of unspeakable nonsense. But so far the solution to problematic single cards has been banning (Memory Jar, Academy etc.) or errata'ing (Karmic Guide) the offending card, not changing the rules to fix an particular card. And even then they sometimes kept problematic cards unchecked rather than changing anything (Necropotence).
Moreover, getting rid of mana burn renders many cards obsolete. Cards like Power Surge and Citadel of Pain just don't work if the opponent can just tap out without using the mana. What about those?

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Posted 27 May 2015 at 17:17

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Yes and those cards won't get reprinted because that isn't the way wizards want to go, they don't want the crazy combos any more and they don't want one deck on top, hence the huge support for control in DTK after getting little to nothing after U/W picking up before rotation made the format less fun... that pro tour final was just boring. Mana burn doesn't affect standard anymore, little to no impact in modern as when you make infinite mana, you win and in legacy it would make some new innovation, but its more likely to strangle other decks in legacy but there is simply no point of it now.

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Posted 27 May 2015 at 20:40

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That's because all you can think of is tournaments. Half of all games played are still at the kitchen table. Mindslaver doesn't affect Standard either, so that argument is nil even by your standards. Moreover - if it doesn't affect you anyway, why remove it in the first place!?

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 06:37

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You remove irrelevances because they just clog up the game and make a pain for judges, I'm actually looking at it from WOTCs perspective, they want people to play tournaments and they most endorse standard because money. I wasn't talking about Mindslaver, I think it was a bad example (No offence!!) for why mana burn has been removed. And hey if you play kitchen table, then you can add it back in.

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 07:59

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My playgroup added mana burn back. My original comment was about Wizards dumbing the game down being a factor why control is on a decline. Removal of mana burn (a rule that forced players to make tactical decisions) was just one of many examples of that dumbing down (or "simplifying" or, even more corporate-speak: "streamlining") the game. Of course it makes sense from Wizard's point of view but I am not Wizards and don't like their decision.

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 08:04

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But control isn't on the decline, this standard we have Abzan and esper, before it was U/W control, before that it was Drownyard esper. Modern doesn't really play control because combo kills are faster, although Jeskai control will always have a special place in my heart in modern. Legacy has Miracles, enough said. Control is not on the decline, magic has become simpler so it is more inclusive to those of younger ages and all abilities. How would mana burn improve the game though? It feels like 'don't tap crazy amounts of mana unless u spend it or kill them' and whenever I'm tapping lots of mana, I'm spending it on something nasty, or I'm comboing off and killing you so mana burn has no impact

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 10:03

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"I certainly believed control was dead" <= Your own words.
When I speak about Magic, I see and speak of it over all formats, tournament and casual and throughout history. Control has always been strong in the first part of Magic's colorful history but somewhere around the time they decided a hardcounter should cost more than UU control is on decline. Do you remember those "Hitler reacts to Worldwake" videos? At that point control was weak enough (compared to everything else) that it got it's own meme ...
Of course there will always be a playable deck here and there. But think of it from Wizard's POV again: Control is the hardest to play (both playing it and playing against it) and it drags out games which is something they don't want. This generation wants quick and brutal games. There is a reason why newer games like Hearthstone don't have instants, take the mana generation out of player's hands and generally foster fast and aggressive play. Control is Wizard's least favourite now.

Mana burn again (why does people always hang up on this one fragment!?), what it does add:
As I said, it adds strategic decisions you have to make when dealing with odd mana, excess mana and the rare occasions you give your opponent mana. It also gives certain cards a reason to exists and therefore allows for some decktypes that would not be possible otherwise. Furthermore it reminds players to play less sloppy and plan ahead - only tap for mana if you are going to use it. Furthermore it allows for some unique and interesting situations. My favourite example for this was when a buddy of mine had an out-of-control Black Market going where he got increasingly more desperate to discharge all that mana. And we, scared of the amounts of mana he had, decided to kill even more creatures so he would eventually burn himself to death. It was a very memorable game that forced all of us to play inventive.
Finally, the existance of mana burn is a small but sometimes decisive barrier for cheesy (infinite) mana combos. If you have a Gaea's Cradle going and used that mana to generate lots of tokens so that the Cradle generates even more mana, then, back when mana burn was a thing, you'd better use that mana all up when you tap the Cradle. Mana burn keeps some cards that are as annoying or borderline broken as Mindslaver in check. It's not a great achievement or skillful to drop some Swamps and Cabal Coffers and then go bonkers with dozens of black mana ... but with mana burn, those Coffers do at least have *some* drawback and need *some* skill to operate.

All of this from the casual POV of course. In tournaments, everything is cutthroat and something like Coffers is too slow. Then again I don't see why mana burn would hurt in tournament play either.

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 11:03

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I used the past tense of thinking control was dead, and it pretty much was for Khans and FTR, and I thought that was good. I dislike control, its boring to play against for me and I find it boring to play. My friend took it to a WMCQ and each of his games took so long he had to drop from the tournament because he was so hungry he couldn't think straight. I like crazy mana combos, I'd much rather see them than control, and mana burn doesn't hurt tournaments, so you might as well remove it, its just something else new players have to learn making it more difficult to learn. No UU counterspells you say, Silumgar's scorn is right above xD. Mana burn also draws back some of the stuff WOTC is advocating, Nykthos shrine to Nyx for example, so for such little impact and for taking away from innovation, I think lack of mana burn creates more decks than there are decks that would utilise mana burn. Wizards don't want to kill control, control decks are traditionally the most expensive (Miracles, Esper Dragons/Abzan control and UWR modern) which is good for them, but to quote one of the commentators watching a draw go control mirror match on the PT 'All the control players are getting really excited right now, everyone else is bored to tears'

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 11:20

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As usually we have exact polar opposite opinions on everything ... but thank you for staying civil, something most people cannot :)

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 11:56

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Ye that's fair enough, we were brought up on different styles of magic, no I can't remember the Hitler vids as I only started in New Phyrexia just before rotation. Well I wouldn't swear at someone for having a differing opinion in real life, and I certainly wouldn't swear at someone in a tournament, unless it was in jest, so might as well keep that up here!

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 13:28

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You haven't heard anyone rage until you play 8-rack control in modern against a field of blue.deck or combo.deck.
Always a good day.

Not the best deck but man its a monster when the meta shifts slightly lol.

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 14:08

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Started during New Phyrexia, now that explains alot.

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 14:26

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Won't lie Puschkin, that sounds a bit derogatory xD And Rex, gtfo of my deck you filthy human xD Yes I've experienced horrible death at the hands of 8 rack, although I watched a beautiful game where bitterblossom had just been unbanned and unfortunately, they were playing soul sisters, lose 1, get a fairy and then their opponent gains 3 xD

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 14:43

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Nah, I didn't mean that degarotary. Well then, I do spell it out. It explains:
- Control was at it's peak before your time, so you can't know that it has been on steady decline since around 7th edition
- You started before Worldwake, so you don't know about that video I was referring to. It showed that famous scene of The Downfall with a new dubbing, Hitler reacting to the news that certain cards won't be reprinted in Worldwake and this control (Hitler's favourite deck style) isn't playable anymore. I'd love to link to it, but it has been removed from YouTube meanwhile.
- The newer generations of Magic players are generally more cutthroat ("competitive") than the older ones, explaning your general attitude. Casual is almost lost to them - which isn't necessarily their fault, it's what Wizards fosters.
- You also didn't experience a lot of the developments I was talking about. Dangerous Upkeeps, symmetrical cards etc. have already been on the brink of extinction by the time you started playing.
- Same is true for mana burn and the cards and playstyles associated to that - Power Surge, Citadel of Pain, Eladamri's Vineyard and so on are waaay back before your time.

From your point of view, everything might look as you describe it. I always forget that I am a dinosaur by now - it's very hard to talk about things like these when everybody has so drastically different experiences with this lovely game.

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 16:05

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To be fair, competitive magic has hugely improved since the 90s, all the cutting down in cheating and the like. I've always been a Midgo player who really detests control so the shift in magic has certainly supported me!

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 17:09

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And I always depised combo since it's first incarnation (ProsperBloom) :)

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 17:15

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Viagrasaurusrex has deleted this comment.

Posted 28 May 2015 at 17:50

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swefsdfsdf duplicate

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 17:53

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Yeah haha, like all decks, we have some pretty bad match ups...
8-racks worst are soul sisters, affinity and R/G tron(and maybe infect).

***Wilted abzan is terrible as a match up, but my meta has 0 of this deck so I left it out.

Soul sisters isn't that bad if you have 3-4 dark blasts in the board, but still in their favour.
Game one they can't really beat a bridge, and between Squadron Hawk and their other creature tutor cards they will most likely deck out before you.
It's a grindy game, but you're playing 8-rack, its what you're used to haha.

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 17:56

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I'm surprised you struggle with tron, I hated playing8 rack with my tron deck

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 19:32

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R/G tron is almost unwinnible.
U/W tron and mono-U tron are easy.
The problem with red/green tron is they have all the answers for our threats...
Between ancient grudge and karn etc.
Its around a 30-70 for me facing R/G tron...

You do better if you can stop their early plays, taking maps and stirrings in the first couple of turns can cripple them enough to pull off a win.
raven's crime helps a ton here for the later turns, but still not an easy win.

game one is easy, game two is normally a loss, game 3 strongly depends on your hand.

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 19:38

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And I guess O-stone destroys your bridge, how do you feel about the G/B variant, combo (Mike/Trike) or just normal

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 20:45

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G/B tron list?
I'm not a huge fan of the combo and it like Mono-u tron can be very weak to Graveyard hate...
Not saying I hate G/B tron as it clearly is better against certain lists, but I think overall R/G is just proven.
I haven't played the B/G list yet, doubt I ever will, but I have seen the odd list online.

Yeah o-stone is a beating, if you can keep them off of their early plays and have sideboard pithing needles its a bit less of a threat but yeah...

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Posted 28 May 2015 at 21:14

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I really like GB variant, gives you abrupt decay and thoughtseize, a new interesting one in it would be Tasigur

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Posted 29 May 2015 at 06:36

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Yeah, like I am sure it is great, I just don't like the idea of of the mike/trike combo.
It just seems rather hard to pull off compared to mindslaver lock and whatever else.
Atleast with mindslaver you have ways to dig for both pieces, in order to do the same for mike/trike you would need to play bad cards to get it consistently.

I would most likely go with the normal 4x karn, 1x ugin, x wurmcoils and whatever else.
I like the idea of being able to map for urborg though haha

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Posted 29 May 2015 at 13:33

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You only need tooth and nail, and of course, you need Karn and friends for back up! I like big nasty eldrazi, I just put up a sultai delver deck, might interest you

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Posted 29 May 2015 at 13:41

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