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black artifact control and infect bit of a slow burner this one (hence the name),(formerly called steady proliferate), but if i do get established im adding tokens to tumble magnets, lilliana, lux cannons, and killing with contagion engines and clasps ect and just controling the board , nice combo with proliferate and the carnifex demon adding counters to him and removing them to keep killing !, and sticking minus counters on stuff !, - in its infancy this one and i would welcome suggestions and ways to make it quicker ! ?, thanks people !.
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check out the shadowmoor the eventide cards with wither some of them are pretty usefull pleas check out my new "Liquimetal Cleaning" or my new "Global Eradication" decks (there is a evil suprise in both of them)
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done.
Epic combo with the Pentavus and the Proliferate cards!
Yea he can get pretty big, I really like adding minus counters to the carnifex demons and removing them then I can proliferate anything away.
in here i have a comination of things that either add minus counters to stuff or increase them through proliferation, i think ive got a decent balance now, id like to introduce some early kills to stall why im getting established !.
ive lost the throne of geths now and added x 2 more clasps so could loose soem myr's as they were there for earlt ramp and to sacrifice for proliferate however ive resisted as i am finding the mana quiet usefull. - suggestions ?
Sorin Markov would be absolutely out of this world in the Deck. All 3 of his abilities are amazing, and you can proliferate to his devastating ultimate Mindslaver ability. The fact that he costs 6 Mana means you should probably add the Myrs back. Also, you might want to luck into Blowfly Infection, but it's not as important as my final suggestion: Umezawa's Jitte. Holy hell is the Card awesome in Decks like this. That's it for my suggestions and the Comment you put up on my Deck about Black Creatures for little Mana, check out Carnophage/Juzam Djin. Hope this helps! :D
mate l love all of these suggestions particualy the Umezawa's Jitte, i prefer lilliana over markov i think as it levels up fast and there is always lots in graveyards thanks to the proliferateing, but all yur suggestions are good ones and ill give em thought, ref my fast black id love the juzzam djin but there pricey eh lol, carnophage is a good option ;:-)
Blowfly Infestation is also great but id have to pick my times to play it, dont wanna loose to many of my own creatures at the wrong time but i do like it its fast and keeps the mius counters coming as does of course Umezawa's Jitte - very nice.
except the minus counters from umezawa's jite are only untill the end of turn i ten to look to add a perminant counter sort of infect the creature then attack it throuigh various proliferates, i think x 2 blowflys are enough as like i say i could end up affecting my own stuff however this is a good thing if its the carnifex demon and i can then move counters back off it and repeat the cycle, thanks matey i feel this has added a couple of different options. and all i lost was a tutor and a instill infection, i still feel i can add and remove more things to this deck which is positive as usualy im stuck what to take out, im playing this a lot right now, and its a lot of fun.
this always had 4 tumble magnets in and not any dark rituals i posted it wrong but have now changed it.
and x 2 lux cannons and 21 land rather than 23 - posted wrong.
pentavus never seems to come up in this deck and is expensive not had a game yet were i needed him out so maybe hes favourite for the chop, depite how good he should be in here.
oh and wurmcoil engines were only chucked in to bolster things up , as i had few kill mechanisms, but and i dont know why im suprised they work really well, as if i have to wittle away at them with my carnifex demon the wurmcoild just dies and splits so there staying power there asnd they seem to fit this decks mana curve great, just coming out regular and early enough with the myr's help.
on the subject of kill mechanisisms i was adament that i dident want to poison my opponent with this and keep proliferate and poison seperate as i made this and my cant defect the infect poison deck at about the same time, so to have different concepts but i dont think i can ignore the 4 -/- counters that Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon would place on a creature, lets face it thed have to block and with his regenerate ability, hes another option and way of adding counters and i guess if push came to shove i would be happy to poison them :-) if for some reason they didnt block him.
i vote for sorin in this deck. definitely, otherwise this looks pretty solid.
thanks im glad you think its pretty solid, why you so in favour of sorin, i think hes a good card but cant quiet work out yet why some of you think hes made for this deck, sorry if im missing something silly and i wiil consider all suggestions, just want to know the thinking behind it, thanks.
i vote for sorin because if youre going mono black, hes ten times better than vess is, and he only costs one black more... his abilities are great - damage and lifegain, you can bring yourself back up to ten from a lower life, or reduce your opponent from a high lifespan down to almost nothing, and sorins last ability is just crazy with proliferate because now you can pump him back up fast and continually control opponents turns... if thats not a reason why sorin is better than vess, than i dont know what is.
well really cant argue with that can i !, he he thanks i'll certainly give him a go.
like i spoke about this deck controls the board nicley but relys on creatures in the late game for the kill, and there arnt that many the thinking behind lilliana was her last ability bearing in mind i normally have killed most things off by the time i get round to her, its kind of the decks finishing move, although admitidly this was never the concept, the adding minus counters to stuff the proliferating always was and then i added cards that could do damage and bits and bobs, i cant really argue with the damage and life gain from sorin ive never been in a position to control a players next turn so not sure how powerfull that is, i saw it done with a mindslaver once and it wasnt that effective, but that could have been down to the player, any thoughts on this last ability of his and how powerful it is ?, i do like the idea of 2 damage to a player each turn though.
Umm sorin wouldn't fit in this kind of deck you see sorin is a bit too slow and it would just slow this deck down i mean the only advanatage it would give to this deck is the life gain but other then that i don't see a sorin fitting in here, its a good deck as it is but it could be speeded up quite a bit, since its not type 2 anymore i would reccomend core tappers to drop in here for things that need charge counters and also you could also drop in a splash of green for critter in eventide that lets you sac it to double the amount of counters on anything (ugh) and also add a doubling season and then add some mana ramp as well. for it i would drop 10 swamps and then add 5 forest's then add some of either the pain lands or dual lands whatever your choice, and then drop a fume spitter and a skin render as well as the skitheryx - its a great card but you don't need it, in its place put in some birds of paradise and some cultivates and or some other sort of mana ramp you would prefer, and then after that you can go ahead and drop in 2 doubling seasons and put in 3 of the gilder bairn's in there, not only will they speed the deck up a little but they will also speed the amount of poison counters in here, if you want take out the silver myrs and then drop in some creatures with infect that are either green or black in their place that way you can get the poinson on there, heck u don't even need to use a creature you can use the poison land enchantment, and so on this is just a suggestion either way its a good deck this suggestion is just to speed up the deck significantly.
thanks thats quiet a lot of changes, perhapse to many as it kinda feels like a whole different kind of deck, i am not really worried about poison counters on my opponent i figure i can control the board in terms of creatures and the few wurmcoils and demons in here can deal the damage, skitheryx to be fair is just another type of threat as i appreciate i dont have to many, but hes also in there to attack regenerate and add minus counters onto things so i can then proliferate at stuff. i did of course ask for ways to speed this deck and you certainly seem to know your stuff 9in fact i'm guessing you have a deck quiet similar running all the cards you have mentioned) hence such knowlage, so i will check out each card and im sure some will find there way in, ill do this and write back saying what im adding, cheers.
mmmmm !, really thanks so much for the idea's, i do like coretapper hes cheap and can get me going fast, ill play test these but ultimately see them becoming part of this deck, now adding green i like doubling season a lot, i would love to build a devour deck around this card, thing is all your mana ramp and other changes is to accomodate doubling season, (gilder bain i could run just on black), i have to say speed is an issue with this deck in terms of it may take me 4 to 5 goes to get enough mana going cast a clasp or engine and add the odd counter to things but once i have done this not having my lux cannons, tumble magnets, or carnifex demon charged is not a problem, so i dont really see how i need doubling season, yes im sure it would be nice but its another card to carry, a go to cast it, and i only get added benifit once the counters are in place, by this point the deck feels strong regardless, where it struggles a wee touch is setting up, so adding another colour would slow it down a touch in someways, and the extra counters are not really needed, i also think you need very specific deck mechanics to get the guilder bain working. thanks for the ideas like i say and i'll give them coretappers a whirl, cheers.
i'm not over attached to the instill infection, although it does add a counter, or the pentavus that should be awsome in here but whenever i have one in hand i always end up taking the other option, dont know why, think maybe there a tad to expensive, might change these for the coretapper's.
Three suggestions: Necroskitter, Blowfly Infestation, and Kulrath Knight. Take them to mean as you will, any one of them could be potent in a deck like this. I used to run 4 & 2 Contagions like you are, but I've recently taken a liking to 3 & 3. Then again I do also run 3x Everflowing Chalice in my proliferate decks.. so, that might make the difference. Just food for thought ^_^
Also, Liliana is definitely > Sorin in this deck.
i dont know if anyone had suggested this but why not ad a vultaic key?
i see your thinking to proliferate again, but id still need to pump x 4 mana back into it and 1 to untap it so your talking 9 mana to x2 proliferate, id hope if i got to the stage in the game were i had so much mana id either have the contagion engine out already 4 mana for same effect or id proliferate x 1 with a clasp plus be able to cast something else nasty with the remaining mana or indeed just have 2 clasps out, maybe if i was running sol rings and monoliths and such things thean the key would be better - cheers though.
ive taken advice and switched lilliana vess for sorin as this seems to make sence however like i spoke about this deck controls the board nicley but relys on creatures in the late game for the kill, and there arnt that many the thinking behind lilliana was her last ability bearing in mind i normally have killed most things off by the time i get round to her, its kind of the decks finishing move, although admitidly this was never the concept, the adding minus counters to stuff the proliferating always was and then i added cards that could do damage and bits and bobs, i cant really argue with the damage and life gain from sorin ive never been in a position to control a players next turn so not sure how powerfull that is, i saw it done with a mindslaver once and it wasnt that effective, but that could have been down to the player, any thoughts on this last ability of his and how powerful it is ?, i do like the idea of 2 damage to a player each turn though. any thoughts people ?
I repeat, Lilliana > Sorin. Her ultimate could be nice against an opponent who keeps rebounding against your proliferation. Always good to have that alternative win condition hidden away in there somewhere. What's more important, however, is her reusable tutor ability. Sorin can't grab the card out of your deck that you need the most. Lilliana can. And that is about 90% of the reason I run her in any of my decks.
I love how everybody is hatin' on my Sorin Markov suggestion. And while I would love to see him in more Decks, their point stands out, keep 'em Liliana's.
Lol, I'm not hatin' on Sorin, he's just not right for this deck :P
mmm savajcabbaj the way your wrote it i thought it was another vote for sorin over lilliana, but isee that your actually in the lilliana camp, i'm a bit split now to be honest you can see my thinking and why i added her above and i still like her in here, just people have been making a strong argument for sorin, i dont actualy own any sorin's so for now im gonna throw the vess back in, and she's cheaper to cast (always good), but may try and get hold of a sorin and play test it a bit, not sure if i'm sold on the final mindslaver ability just yet. rhanks everyone for such a constructed pro's and con argument between the too its been good food for thought.
chears for the honesty wingman, sorins cool your right, but fair play for saying its the vess that stacks up, others wouldnt.
how ar epeople feeling about the addittion of skitheryx ???, like i say its not there to poison people (although he can of course) but if they dont wanna get poisoned or at least very sick they gotta block him, i regen and hes done his job as whatever blocked him now has those minus counters on it - my thinking anyway what about yours people ????
Skythrujhic, the Hard to Spell Dragon is a game-ending Card on its own, and comboed with your regen/proliferate combo he's even better. Not to mention 2 slots ain't much, so I'd say he's just fine.
lol ref the dragon, cool i think hes another option in here so thanks for confirming - looks like hes in to stay !, cheers as always
dude, you might consider adding a bit of blue in here, so you can add in inexorable tide and steady progress. both are fantastic in my arcbound prolif deck (http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=122269 is an older version of it), though more inexorable tide than steady progress. not sure if thatd really help all that much, cuz youd have to worry about getting both types of mana. maybe add in some jwar island refuges to help with that, or a similar land?
cheers i find i get tokens at a reasonable speed its more early game whilst im casting my artifacts and lat late on in terms of finishing people off, but its kinda coming together i think the addittion of the skitheryx the blight dragon along with the wurmcoild and demons has proberly given me enough threats especialy as the creatures in here seem to hang around (i.e wurmcoil splitting and skitheryx regenerating), so im not going to risk adding the blue for extra proliferate, i have to say though i think inexorable tide is excellent but im not sure about the value of steady progress
Darksteel Reactor? Sure, it will probably be dealt with in all manner of ways, but all those ways will be wasted on it and not your other stuff. =]
ha ha that would certainly increase my win conditions, i'll sideboard one, id have to play a couple if i was ever in a seris compatition but casual play its not my favourite way of winning, but great i didnt know the card and like you say its a way to eat removal as i dont carry to many other threats, actually i'll consider playing these, thanks buddie.
tumble magnets are really usefull early on as there cheap to cast and slow up my opponent im down to three but really think i might need the 4th i origionaly had, but what to loose in here ?
and id like to find space for x 2 more coretapper's, again what to loose ?
Lose all 4 Leaden Myr. Add one more Palladium and the other stuff.
sure this wouldnt slow it down a bit to much buudy, i do find the myrs ramp usefull, i do appreciate that the oretappers would speed it up to a degree in there place but thats a lot of myrs your talking about loosing ?
It's up to you in the long run, that's just what immediately flooded in my head at the time. =]
What about adding in a few Jaces?
no blue, jace is a powerfull card but dont see him fitting in here, as this deck isnt about card draw or putting things away, milling ect.
I like your deck I'm new to magic and making decks can you please see if you can help me i would be eternally grateful might even give you my first born, but seriously I need some ideas on how to improve. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=128048
I love how this deck is shaping up. I would drop the Leaden Myr and Instill Infection for 2x Tainted Strike and 4x Ichor Rats. The rats are perfect for this deck because they give out a poison counter as soon as they enter the battlefield for you to proliferate.
thanks im glad you like it, and it has really suprised me it started from spare cards although admitidly i did then spend a bit to bring it up to speed, i do like the rats actuall cause like you say it poison over the top, i may even add them it my cant deflect the infect deck, (infect deck), but i'm not really aiming to poison my opponents with this one, even the blight dragon is there for a different reason, even though at a push of course id poison with him, but i can carry him because he serves other purpose in the fact that he attacks gets blocked and then things have - counters on them, and he can regenerate, i'm not really looking to carry to many other cards for poison as i wont have enough in here to do it effectivly cause of all the other stuff, and dont want to start loosing cards that do the other stuff for more poison that wont have enough back up., cheers for the thoughts though and like i say i like them wee rats they may make a apperence elsewere.
I just gained a whole 'nother level of respect for you fluffstar, the perpose of this deck just hit me after reading your comment and going through the deck again. This is CRUEL and I love it! Unfortunately, being a mainly Boros-style mage makes me hate you for designing a deck like this, but you can't have everything in life. The hat is off to you man, this is one awesome combo-control deck!
why thank you that means a lot, yep im not out to poison with this one i aim to find clever ways of putting counters on stuff = fume spitters, skin renders, contagion clasps/engines, then i proliferate controling the board best example of this is the carnifex demon as i add minus counters to him through proliferate, then take em off with his own ability onto everything else then my next proliferate targets as many creatures as i want, while im doing my thing with the demon, im adding counters to tumble magnets and lux cannons and pretty much control everything increasing all my stuff in one proliferic go he he, nice to see you taking a good look and grasping the workings and thanks for the words man.
p.s your boros still rock man.
hey please check out my skittering hell deck just posted, cheers.
I didn't take the time to read through all the comments, so sorry if this was already brought up, but did you ever consider Necroskitter? Thats a hell of a way to win against a white weenie deck. Carnifex demon out, contagion engine proliferate 1, proliferate 2, kills all those 1/1s and 2/2s and then you get them back on your side. Luckily with proliferate you can choose which permanents to put counters on :), so you could pull 3 counters off your Carnifex demon before Necroskitter dies. Might not work because necroskitter will eventually die... but it would be a really mean way to defeat someone. Another suggestion, more for mid game you could use Mimic Vat to keep putting copies of Skinrender out. Its sorta like having a reoccuring Lightning Bolt. All in all looks like a really cool deck. I was trying to make something with proliferate/infect + wurmcoil engine and it seems you've got all my favorites in one package. :)
ha ha glad you like it !, and yes there some nice cards grouped together in here, i have to say it was never my intention to combine proliferate with the wurmcoils the deck was 1st built round ways of giving things minus counters and then proliferation and things which benifited from that and would give me good all round control i got that through tumble magnets clasps and engines doing the killing, skin renders and counters on lilliana givingme tutoring ability discard and ultimatley graveyard utility !, but then it became clear that the deck lacked a few threats big creatures (i am slightly big creature obscessed) that helped my control over the board so the wurmcoils and skithirix's were added, wurmcoils work so well cause in the course of running things i may have to infect my own creatures with the carnifex demon and the wurmcoil has staying power !, the deck isnt the fastest so lifelink is a godsent and death touch is usefull bearing in mind eventualy i want to blow up lillinana so the more creatures in graveyards the better, skithirix speaks for himself as hes both a threat in himself and ideal for adding counrers to blockers, thanks for looking at this one and i take the tikme to explain the evolution of this deck as i know youve mentioned your thinking of building something similar so hope this helps.
oh and i really like Necroskitter he sort of fits in with the mana curve and also can just sit back and take effect my only fear is that there are some creatures that have nasty effects that i wouldnt want to bring back i feel the same way about all that it betrays in my eldrazi decks shame though casue i want to like him, great suggestion cheers.
OMG its "MAY" put back into play under my control, so that solves that one then !, lol, even better suggestion, soon as i figure what to loose i'll look at adding x2, thanks.
ok after playtesting i found i actually get to use lilliana vess's last ability more often than is average in this deck due to proliferating her up so quick i find that necroskitter by pinching things earlier takes something away from that, i think i'll playtest with a few more in there at a later date see if having more and so having creatures at more regular intervals helps, still a very cool idea and right on the fringes
i'm finding i can power up my artifacts quiet efficently and although coretapper helps greatly two isnt cutting it so i even add two more or drop the two i'm running i mean once i get to 4 mana im quiet comfortable in terms of proliferating and i can cast the bulk of my artifacts so i'll sideboard coretappers i think and run x 4 of them if im up against a quicker than average deck. but for now i'm going to experiment with another skthirix the blight dragon as ive found him to be a big threat in here, the leaden myrs make him a bit more playable, and hes another threat, i dont see the logic in running x 1 coretapper as i'm loosing 1 for the dragon so the others going and i think i'm just going to fill it out with another palladium myr i do find the mana abilitys so usefull in speeding this deck up either by casting a wurmcoil quickly or having on board late game for proliferation puropses thing about this deck you can never have enough mana as you can always use it to proliferate gain and again and there are plenty ways of doing so !, let me know your views on the changes, all be them sutble ones.
Fluff, my man! Proliferate is by far my favorite mechanic. Well done on the deck. I love it! My laptop is dying and I'm going to reread all of this later, but before I forget I wanted to suggest Kulrath Knight or Power Conduit. The former for ruining your opponent's day since you're gonna have -1/-1 counters flying around all over the place, the latter to help facilitate counter movement. I actually have two decks that function off the main ideas behind this deck, maybe they'll have some ideas that can help you out (I actually built the paralyze one moments before I found this deck). And feel free to make a few suggestions if you like :-) http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=127770 http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=130957
hi mate !, Kulrath Knight is particualy intresting and would be a bit of a bugger to play against im sure, thing is in here i quiet like my opponents creatures to block as things like the blight dragons will add minus counters to them, and if they take damage i can proliferate them away easier, my creatures tend to survive a round or two with there abilitys (wurmcoil/skithirix) so its a good trade off, i think if the Kulrath Knight cost a bit less i could be tempted he is a 3/3 flyer and a very good card, just think the stuff in here has an edge over him, power conduit i see your thinking i could remove the minus counters carnifex puts on my own creatures and turn it into an attacking play, very creative however i feel that if i get to the point were i'm proliferating with the demon and removing counters im in good control of the board my wurmcoils and dragons are big enough to withstand this and so not really needed, very good suggestions mind i'm looking forward to checking your decks out many thanks.
I was trying to make a black controll deck a while ago with necroskitter in it, but quickly realized that in order for it to work the entire deck needs to be focused around it, which i think yours can acchieve. :) I'm happy you took my suggestion, and i hope that it works out. You mentioned that your deck may take a while to build up. Black doesn't have many walls... and walls dont really work with Carnifex out anyway, so if you need something to stall i'd suggest getting some discard spells. Discard has got to be the MOST annoying thing to play against. You might not realize it when you're the one playing the discard spell, but as the other person you definatley feel it. Not sure theres much room for it, but its just a subtle suggestion :/ Idk if this works in the deck, but you could try mimic vat + Wurmcoil, and try to keep killing the wurmcoil that comes out to the tokens.
hi and nmany thanks, mimic vat would be another card setting up, and although nice when in tandem with the wurmcoil eat my mana for proliferation and i think perhapse take something away from the deck, i have a deck called wurmcoil sacrifice built enitly around sacing and regrowing the wurmcoil from the graveyard, you should take a look, again many people suggested mimic vat for that deck, so i can see its a nice comb, yes thanks for the necroskitter, i always felt like there was space in here for something and maybe thats the card i'll let you know how it goes.as for discard i think some cheap inqusitions of kozliak coul dbe worth there weight in gold ad disenchant and swords to plowshares are definatly enimies of this deck, inquistions are cheap to cast and a favourite of mine as is most low cost spell that has a decent effect, like you say its just what to loose but i'll give this some consideration. when you build your black control deck let me know and i'll take a look what i will say is black alone struggles with certain things (artifacts enchantments ect) but to be fair to this one combined with certain artifacts lux cannons ect i can deal with most things, i really do control the board even in multiplayer situations with this deck once past the 1st few goes and established, it really can and does handle most things which is the most pleasing part and should encourage you to build that black control deck, as im sure combined with the artifacts around now can give you the control your after, thanks for the comments i'm glad you like the deck, this one along with my fast black is my favourite i think as its so much fun to play.
I had that decklist posted, but deleted it because it didn't really work out. I'll post it again in a few. It was sorta discard, but i didn't want to focus completley on that... idk. Check it out when you have time.
checked and commented and impressed, did you check out my wurmcoil sacrifice deck ref us talkingabout mimic vat and wurmcoil ?
I saw it, but i was gonna look into other enchantments you could use instead of the one that you had, because it looked like you had to have 2 wurmcoils in your graveyard for it to work? I was thinking about Wurmcoil engine imprinted on a mimic vat (which would spawn a wurm every turn), you could then sacrifice that to pay the upkeep cost for Eldrazi monument, and then that poops out 2 wurm tokens, but your opponent could remove the mimic vat and then you have to start sacing all your tokens. But... you might have alot of tokens out and alot of life, and you could still win so its not too bad. I was looking at the aforementioned combo but instead of Eldrazi monument, atrittion or mind slash, which could get nasty. Grave pact on top of that could work. Then a temple bell so you can draw cards and keep having your opponent discard.
sounds like intresting combo's, and a deck in the making look through the wurmcoil sacrifice deck if you want there are so many options with it, but actually your wrong needing 2 wurmcoils in the graveyard as i can bring back the same one i sac most goes, lots of cards to do that sometimes more than once in a go, cards in hand permiting. please check comment like and rate my swamp amigo's deck as im in mid build and like all the help i can as always your comments are valued.
i presume the enchantment you refer to is the reacurring nightmare, i generaly swap a bloodghast or reasembling skeleton around with a wurmcoil, and repeat so sac a wurm for a bloodghast create a token then replay the reacurring nightmaresac the bloodghast or skeleton and repeat, i can always bring these back from the graveyard later, check all the comments on there i think the evolution is explained pretty well, thanks again just wanted to clarify and get you looking as you have your own plans for wurmcoil engine and i think this deck proves you can be quiet creative with him, cheers again.
very pleased with the addition of tainted strike despite loosing a throne of geth which hurts as the proliferate card balance in here is finley poised but i previously run it without these and added two so ones still an increase and tainted strike is great in here, most of my creatures are beefy they normally make it through with the tumble magnets and lux cannons clearing the way and with skithirix lurking 3 - 6 points of infect from anything from a skin render to a wurmcoil is just whats needed, also the only spells inthis deck.
ha ha as pleased as i genuinley was with the additions of tainted strike above, ive had to take them out to make way for the new card from besigedf spread the sickness, if this deck lacks one thing its the ability of a quick kill on a large creature yes i can tap them and build up the lux cannon ect and kill something in a go or too, but spread the sickness lets me target a specific creature and kills it in one go - pricless in this deck also its played from hand meaning my cannons and tumble magnets ect can focus elsewere, its also excellent for the mana as it also proliferates an ability which in most cases costs 4 colourless anyway, so for an extra 1 black i'm also killing a creature, i always like cards that do 2 things and this does, also ive missed the throne of geths i took out for the tainted strikes as i felt i needed another 2 or so ways of proliferating, this provides me with that whilst also letting me carry another option in the way of the ability to destroy a creature - i really think its what this decks been missing , i shall miss my tainted strikes but i think the spread the sickness is the right card.
my favourite deck just got better black sun's zenith is perfect for this deck it adds that kill i need for big creatures where proliferate i too slow, and adds more control, all i loose are some myr's and maybe split a wurmcoil or too hhaaahhaaa (evil laugh) lol
Like the look of the deck, I absolutely love proliferate. I have an older version of a deck up that needs to be updated on here, but it relies heavily on blue to proliferate instead of just the clasps and engines. There are thrummingbirds, tez's gambits...a lot to work with. Seeing just the engines and clasps makes me worry that this might be too slow. I might suggest trying to find room for some everflowing chalices or unwinding clocks - the chalices can give insane ramping and just scream destroy me in a deck like this to help keep your engines/clasps/cannons around, and with the clock untapping mana myrs and your proliferator ever turn you can effectively double your speed. Ooh, another NPH addition that might be awesome in here is hex parasite. Use it to clean up your side after a carnifex/zenith bomb. One of my favorites is paying the black, then tapping a chalice and eating all but a counter or two with its own mana. Swinging for 8+ is always fun, even moreso when its effectively off of 2 mana. I'll fix up my list and post a link...that early incarnation is nothing like what it is now so I would be a bit ashamed of it.
hi, intresting comments the deck is faster than it looks but very finley balanced fume pitters and skin renders provide some early blockers and black suns zenith can pull things back for me, so it manages on speed although excepted its no road runner, its really a control eck more than anything and so odes takle just a klittle setting up, just before i saw this post i was commenting and leaving chnages so please read on and have a look and give me your thoughts, the myrs where good early game but getting wiped out by the zeniths and the carnifex demons, so mid to late game felt like a wasted draw so ive tried to move forward without them although i did agonise about early on and yes your right it did rely purley on the clasps and engines for proliferate untill i saw grim affliction which replaced the pallidium myrs its 3 mana kills up to a 2/2 early on and also is another 3 cards i a carrying that provide a proliferate effect, (by the way if your running a blue proliferate deck its only an option in vintage but you should consider inoxerable tide ans shreiking drake popping the drake back to your hand its basicialy a mass proliferate for each blue mana you spend !) back to this though i also added x2 tezzerets i had 2 and had to use them to be honest but hes proved a real asset in digging out the artifacts i need to proliferate and also the wurmcoils which provide valuable life back and board threats, again ringing true with what you said about beig relient on the clasps and engines to proliferate so why i havnt added other options well (x3 one off's with grim affliction) i can at least cycle for them when needed. its also another win condition and life back, i splashe blue just for him as hes so verstile, i dont feel the chalices i did flirt with them but like i say i need the control in here first and formost, i could happily run chalices tainted strikes myres and all manner of other stuff but its such a balance i mean i even have to split creatures between damage and infect but this works suprisingly as it gives them 2 things to think about, and also the non infect creatures abilitys outway the fact they dont have infect and with the addition of tezzeret i can turn my inkmoth nexus's into 5/5 flying infects intresting with a skithirix out as well and tumble magnets tapping blockers. sorry if i go on as ive wrote the changes i can see how much i like them and i raley loose with this one so its a bit more important to me than the others lol, i think your comments where great thank you very much i do like the hex parisite who nows i may work him in somewhere, and please give your thoughts on the changes. many thanks.
this has establisged as one of my best decks and i could happily run another 10 cards in it but i have to make sacrifices all the way through ive decided that if i get the control right i.e i can control the board tap things with magnets nip over with a moth, kill when i need to and steadily proliferate and draw what i need then i win, the combos of lilliana vess and tezerett and inkmoth nexus and tezzeret are all part of this i can draw what i want cycle through my deck and send in 5/5 flying infect creatures, so much fun to play and yes it was worth adding blue for tezzzeret.
since you already have blue and you said you didn't like instill infection much, why not run Tezzeret's Gambit or Steady Progress instead? another thing i've noticed is that it's a tad slow. so add in dark rituals and/or everflowing chalices. also, phyrexian crusader may be more potent than skinrender. i'd swap a playset for a playset. Hope i helped!
what i have learnt with this deck is if i get the control element right 1st in the build, then it wins, skin renders are primeraly i kill card that also rovide a nice blocker i tend to use them to chomp quite willingly once ive played them and killed that nasty ertai or elf ect that comes out early to stall decks i have fumespitters as my 1st kill and/or blocker then the skin renders, i agree that the crusader is infect and a nasty blocker but he cant target certain creatures in the way the skinrender does when he comes in, i often worry about splitting my creatures between damage and infect in this deck but it somehow works better than i beleive it should, like i say its a control deck primeraly and if i can get that part right i can normaly squeeze enough damage or infect through (id love to include tainted strike to get round this and shift the dmage caused by some creatures to infect but cant seem to loose enough to work them in). i reaaly like steady progress and tezzerits gambit and envy the card draw again its what to loose this deck is so finley balanced and also at present i like that blue is just as splash makes the deck flow quiet well not worrying about the right mana
update ! - there where too many mana intesive cards over 6 mana mainly x2 contagion engines an extra wurmcoil and x 2 carnifex demons, the demons where in for boardwipe by constatly proliferating - counters on and off them - not now needed with the extra zenith nor is the contagion engine for the same reasons, sure doule proliferate is nice but with more quicker spells like the tezzertts gambbit not a nessesity id rather have a qyuic proliferate for 3 rather than 4 not have to cast the artifact 1st as with the engines and also have x2 cards for my trouble, so loosing x 2 carnifex demons and x 2 contagion engines for 1 more zenith (got away with 1 as it shuffles back in) left me space for the 2 gambits an extra land and a fun card in the way of jace, he works great with proliferate as his last abilitys just mental i either deck someone or draw my perfect hand, he so works great with lilliana ashis 1st ability lets you draw what you tutored with lilliana and his 2nd dumps creatures in your opponents graveyard for lillina's final ability.