New Boros

why thank you :D I love boros. I love all aggro these days... besides kuldotha and knights. Lol.

and legacy... guess what :O Today me and my friend were discussing playing legacy.
I played agaisnt my friend's legacy merfolk deck, and i fell in love with daze. <3
Force of will is really good too, but I mean... so is a jace. LOL

But I may very well get into legacy. Rafiq of the many tickles my fancy ; ]

But do you have any tips for where to start? And staples to look for?

Bahaha. That made me laugh pretty good WhiteAndBlue. Cookies! Yes!:)

But anyway, that's cool to hear Ethan. Legacy really is a rough format in that the "best" decks do tend to be incredibly more expensive than standard decks, but if you do like I do and just play with friends who also have "mediocre" legacy decks then everyone is still relatively on par with one another. The biggest problem to me is acquiring actual dual lands so I just use the Ravnica Shock lands. Beta duals are definitely staples but Ravnica duals can work just fine too. Also, with said duals you will want Zendikar/Onslaught Fetchlands. These are some of the staples that don't entirely break the bank (if you go Ravnica duals obviously). After that, it really depends on what you plan to do - aggro, combo, control, etc. Stoneforge is actually becoming quite big in legacy now and you've already got those so it may be a fine starting point. You may want 1 or 2 Jittes to go with them and if you can manage to find one, Sword of Fire and Ice is quite amazing too though not entirely necessary. Hope that helps for a start. Haha. I'm no legacy pro but I'm just kinda entering into it too and that's been much of my initial assessment.

Oh, and in general, most legacy decks don't run much for cards that cost over 4 mana unless you can somehow reduce the cost (Tombstalker/Affinity) or cheat it into play. So... While a bomb in standard, Primeval Titan just doesn't quite cut it as much it seems.

Hmmm, staples really depends entirely on what line of game you intend to play. I'm a blue based player(shocking isn't it?), so my staples are Force of Will, Daze, and Brainstorm.

If you want to go with aggro right now, there's a G/W deck called Maverick that's been doing pretty well recently. Stoneforge packages have become quite good as Edna said, so you could go with that.


Staples for green pretty much boils down to Tarmogoyf, and white is Swords to Plowshares pretty much... Red is completely beyond me, I just kinda use a pair of Grim Lavamancers and other than that you're probably better versed than I am.


And Edna, what would this game be without cookies? If you've never eaten cookies while playing this game I highly recommend it.

Money really isn't an issue for me. Magic and hack are all I do... so I like to at least be good at one of them, lolol.
I may be going to Canadian Nationals this year though, so my legacy career may be on hault. :P

But I really like exalted for g/w. And swords to plowshares seems really good, as does rafiq. Besides that, that 1 mana that taps for bant mana... noble hierarch, she seems really good too. And vengevines in a legacy deck seem ideal to me. I'd just make it a legacy version of my standard g/w, with some new tech as I go along. And stoneforge would bring along the jitte (:

Any suggestions for really good bant colored aggro creatures? :O

Rhox War Monk, Trygon Predator, Qasali Pridemage, Kitchen Finks, and Knight of the Reliquary are popular choices. I don't play Bant much anymore myself, I've taken to RUG right now for the roles it used to play for me.

I know RaggedJoe has a nice Bant list up here, it's a lot less focused on tricks than my builds had been, and because of that it's gentler on mulligans. I did aggro-control there like I do with everything :D


Also, backtrack 4. It makes comps a breeze.

Don't forget the 'Goyf! Along with those cards, I've seen quite a bit of Bant lists running some amount of Green Sun's Zenith (often up to 4). This allows you to play more bullets (Pridemage) and fewer of your threats in general while maintaining redundancy. For example, because of GSZ, you can run just 3 KotR or even 2. Something like that. This provides more deck space. With GSZ, most people I've seen also run a single Dryad Arbor. It can work nicely as an extra 1-drop ramp spell on turn 1 or just as an extra creature in a pinch.

If you're running blue, Mental Misstep is actually becoming more of a staple than Force of Will in some decks! I've seen many lists that run 4 Misstep and only 0-3 Force of Wills! At a recent major tournament, the winner was a Bant list with 4 Missteps and no Forces.

I've actually run three FoW since before Misstep, it's really the overall size of the counter suite that matters. With magic, I think in terms of Reanimator, where I like to run nine counters main deck with two stifles and a spell pierce in the board.

I didn't list Misstep in staples because it's something I figured Ethan already saw the potential of for Legacy off of a game with Fish.


Also, I personally don't like losing my best hard counter, so I don't quite like the list that ran no FoW's. I like it because it means I can get away with more, but I agree with Ethan that it would've been awesome if Hive Mind topped it.



Finally, I like the sound of using Skyfishers instead of hawks Ethan. It's a techy move, but it's one that makes sense right now.

I love solid counter. In standard, you usually figure you won't be countered if you leave open 3 mana, lol. That's why deprive now is seeing more play (where I play anyways).

And that hive mind was sooooo tech! Like, app. it's been on the go for a while, but when I first heard it, I was like "....HE JUST BROKE THE FORMAT!" Hahaha, I thought it was such a cool combo. (:

And I'm glad I'm not the only one sky fishers sounded good to, sometimes that land fall can really make the difference. and also if i'm stuck on 1 plains, I can go skyfisher, bounce plains, play stoneforge or something. (:

When I first saw the Hive Mind combo, I was suddenly very happy I have my lands deck. :D Not only should I be able to pay pay for their pacts, I should be able to keep them from being able to go off till the cows have come home.


And on Skyfisher, they have some amusing applications, and a lot of practical value. I don't really see a reason to run squadron hawk if you're not seeing tons and tons of removal, from what I hear cawblade isn't nearly the same anymore, so I say go for it.

do you run terra eternal in lands? :O

and yeah, i like the skyfisher idea. the only down side is he doesn't bring his amigos, but boros should be fast enough to not give a crap. :D

Terra Eternal has been tried in lands, it's just kind of redundant though. We have plenty of ways to deal with people killing our lands, for instance Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds.

And I agree that your deck should be fast enough, it's @#$% Boros! It's closer to being a combo deck in standard than valakut!

I'm not fully sold on Skyfisher over Hawk. I mean, let's be honest... Neither is really too amazing as an "aggressive" two drop but they both are there to provide more late game staying power with flying to boot. I can certainly see advantages for both, and while I'm not sure which I'd prefer, I don't think Skyfisher is "just" better than Hawk. I would argue that they're really about equal right now in this deck, both filling similar but clearly different and effective spots for the deck. I think whichever you choose really just comes to preference. One great benefit of Skyfisher for your deck though is that you could easily get away with just 2 or 3. With Hawks, you almost need to run all 4 (certainly no less than 3!). This would allow you to add the 4th Geopede which I think is better than either of them in a Boros deck. Also, you could run an extra Stoneforge Mystic if you wanted then, as well though 3 seems reasonable for Boros.

So... if you could find another way to fit in the 4th Geopede, I personally think I'd prefer Hawk (though wouldn't fault you either way). If not, I like the idea of 2-3 Skyfisher and a playset of Geopedes sounds like a good idea to me. Hope that helped.

the no fow deck was soooooooooooooooooooooo good. I read that wizards article, but I gotta say I wanted hive mind to top that one. Loved that combo, so tech.

And misstep is actually really good in legacy, thanks for reminding me.
and I plan on buying a playset of goyfs the summer. 250, included shipping sounds like a deal to me.
but also I plan on buying fow, too.

and gsz was a given, but thanks for refreshing my memory! It sounds like legacy will be fun (:

but i think while that deck's being bought, i'll run a naya natural affinity deck, lol. natural affinity, pyroclasm, all lands die. then just use aether vial to slowly work my way back up :D

Also, here is my must have list for a serious legacy player:
White: StP, SFM
Blue: Brainstorm, Ponder, Misstep, Daze, FoW
Black: Dark Confidant (code-name Bob), Thoughtseize, Extirpate
Red: Goblin Guide, Lightning Bolt, Grim Lavamancer
Green: Noble heirarch, Goyf, Goyf, Korsan Grip, Goyf, GSZ, Dryad Arbor
Multicolored: KotR, Qasali Pridemage
Artifacts: SoFaI, SoLaS, SoFaF, Jitte, Sensei's Diving Top, Engineered Explosives, Basilisk Collar
Lands: Every Fetchland ever printed, every Duel ever printed (Alpha/Beta>>>>Ravnica), Karakas, Ridshan Port, Wasteland

Thanks for all the staples! but can you tell me what the abbreiviations are? where I don't play much legacy, i don't know them all. :/

and thanks, but I think it'll be more fun if I build my own deck starting off. don't like netdecking, lol.

and also, can you tell me what the difference is between control/aggro and aggro/control?

Tarmogoyf, Knight of the Reliquary, Swords to Plowshears, Stoneforge Mystic, Sword of Fire and Ice/Light and Shadow/Feasy and Famine, Green Sun's Zenith, Force of Will.

Here's the thing about legacy, when u are just startingfrom T2, and u build Ur own decks, you will lise 99% ofthe time. The format is so fundamentally different than T2 that you will not be able to build a decent deck. One of the fundamental rules of legacy is that if it costs 4 or more mana and doesn't win the game, don't play it. Seems unlikely that would occur to a T2 player. The format is that much faster. There are mNy many more things to go along. Try legacy play 1st, and deck building later. Legacy deck buildin is hard, especially when Ur inventing a nw deck. Trust me, I basically reinvented an entire Archetype.

Aggro/Control is more aggro w control backup. Control/Aggro is a control deck w creature aggro backup.

Joe, you didn't 'basically' reinvent affinity if that's what you mean.. You fed the gremlins after midnight, and you can't deny it! :P

Also, a staple interaction for you to think Ethan; Natural Order, Dryad Arbor, and Progenitus. You'll probably wind up doing it a lot in Legacy Bant, unless suddenly popping out a creature who has protection from coffee stains isn't 'cool'.

I may be wrong here, but I would think basically Team America is control/aggro, while Merfolk falls more into the aggro/control type deck. Anyway, I think a few things ragged missed that are "becoming" staples from trends I've seen are the new sword (War and Peace - though mostly nice for it's protection) and Batterskull (which is sooo sick to drop with SFM, even in legacy). Also, I'm not sure how Jace isn't quite a blue staple as it usually at least appears as a 1 of in most blue decks, even if it's in the sideboard. Standstill also falls here, I'd say, though not quite as much of a staple (certainly played a lot, even in decks like merfolk which aren't really "Standstill" decks). Duress is also much more important in Legacy than in standard because many of the best cards pre-Ravnica especially are non-creature cards (though Duress is at it's finest in Vintage I'd say). At the worst, it can remove their Force of Wills or bait a Misstep.

But yeah, that seems like a really nice list ragged! One last random comment... Is there something wrong with me that I ALWAYS first read KotR as something like "Koth of the... Red"? haha

You hit the nail right on the head, my friend. Thanks. :D

Ok, I was just thinking The other hero because of the second ability that triggers whenevr he attacks, having a massive army of massive/not as massive creatures would be nice =)
I think they might have made Battlecr as a remake of exalted, just only nerfed and enhanced(in diffent areas) for instance all creature can attack, And recieve the buff, where as exalted only one creature attacks, and recieves the buff from all your untapped creatures. Yup, I know it's off topic =)

exalted is soooo much better. exalted in boros... ohhhhbuddy. That would have been nuts. :P

Yeah, Battle Cry is great for some things, but Exalted can be abused soooooo much.

No, it's not a copy at all. I saw that deck, after I built this one. I was playing boros long before it placed 2nd at Pro tour paris and before it hit the top 8 in previous weeks.

I like to believe I'm an alright deck builder. So it only makes sense that I would make a deck similar to that of someone who top 8'd.
I'm nowhere near as good a player, but some builds I just understand. Like boros, u/b control, and mono black. (:
I'd say green white but I actually struggled a lot with that build.

allright fair enough, you do seem rather talented and knowlegdable so i'll give you props for doing it

Why thank you (:

Thanks, man. If you do, tell me how it works out for you!