No change log but updated list to final iteration. I will be retiring this deck to build a Noyan Dar EDH. This is by far the strongest deck I've ever played. Despite winning a significant number of games with it, I have never been targeted for playing this deck or had anyone groan or roll their eyes when I pull it out. Ephara is an amazing general for sheer power and subtle advantage that does not draw attention to itself until it's too late to stop her. If Noyan Dar doesn't turn out the way I'm hoping he does, I'll be coming back to Ephara in a heartbeat.
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The problem with using all the same power cards as legacy is that multiplayer has a different tempo than those formats. Yes, you will still have a strong deck with some of those decks. Yes, you still want to keep your curve down when you can. However, one for one trades are actually fairly bad in EDH. Assuming a four player game, every card you draw you're opponents are drawing three cards. Some of that is mitigated by multiple players interacting but if you become the primary threat like a deck that always wins will do, you can't keep up with that much card advantage. If you just play a lot of the tempo plays that are so good in legacy, you will be out of cards long before the table is dead. A lot of the cards are still powerful but there are generally better options for EDH. Good stuff decks like your friend's are very strong but they certainly aren't the best or unbeatable.
I have played the deck, even tried to be "fair" with it. Up to four or more free spells a turn is just insane value that tacks a target on your head from the first swing. It's also foolish not to try to maximize abilities of your general. Her ability leads you into those types of spells as well as top of library tutors and vanishing. Sure, you can build an Arcum deck with no (or bad) artifacts to be more "fair" but optimal builds will want a nev's disk combo. Even if you make a "fair" deck with an unfair general, you have to overcome the stigma of playing an unfair general. "Fair" decks can't win a 3vs1 battle. Which, again, is generally unfun. You don't suggest to the new guy (with no meta information provided) to build the most broken deck imaginable or to use a general that has kill on sight threat reputation. You suggest something interesting to build around and fun to play with and against. Eventually they might try the broken stuff but starting with them will usually not keep them in the format for long. They'll either draw aggro and lose or play the top deck poorly and lose giving them a poor first impression of the format and the top tier decks of the format.Universal statements still apply a vast majority of the time and for the times they don't work, it's usually for people that aren't needing to ask for advice in the first place. In which case, there's nothing wrong with using them. Ignorant comments like "are you the fun police?" really aren't helpful when a statement is true 90%+ of the time and obviously an opinion. It's a social format, fun for more than just you is relevant. If someone is needing to ask for advice on which deck to play, they are new enough that they should be steered away from the "unfun" decks.If the question is "how do I make this stronger?" or "help me break this general" it's entirely a different situation from "which of these should I build?" and the advice should be adjusted accordingly.
...really? That sounds like a pretty weak deck in all honesty. There's a reason people choose GAAIV, Zur, or other multicolor generals to play that type of deck. Control/stax requires consistency and/or the ability to defend your lock which mono white cannot do.It is a safe assessment to say that watching someone else "decksturbate" in one long 20+ minute turn is not fun for the average player. It might be interesting to see the first time a new deck combos off but it gets old quick. I play magic to play magic, not watch someone else take an hour trying to combo off. I don't care if I lose but if you're gonna combo, do it quickly. "Infinite combat/turns" is not a quick way to combo off.EDH is a casual format for mutual enjoyment. There are plenty of groups that like a more cutthroat style of play which is perfectly fine. (I'm probably in that group myself.) However, even those groups don't generally like waiting forever for their next turn, or the next game. She's not unfun because she's just too powerful or unstoppable. She's unfun because to maximize her ability you have to play the types of cards that double or triple your turn length and play those types of cards en masse. She's unfun because the first time you pop an extra turn or extra combat off her trigger, you will be the first player killed in that game if you don't win and then you'll be sitting around twiddling your thumbs as the game goes on without you for another hour or two. You're right, fun is subjective. However, if we're playing magic to have fun; then not playing magic is not having fun.
Narset is very easy. She's just stupidly broken and incredibly unfun. Just play extra turns, extra combat steps and board wipes that miss her or land destruction. Throw in some ramp to push her out faster and some top manipulation to make sure she doesn't whiff. I would just build Sidisi. She's powerful but not broken. She's an awesome zombie deck commander by adding green for some extra shenanigans with Parallel Lives, Doubling Season, Life from the Loam, Regrowth effects, etc. Elixir of Immortality is for defending against a GY exile effect, not to keep from decking yourself. If you can dump your whole deck in the yard 3-6 cards at a time and haven't won yet, you've done something wrong. If you can wait a week, Fate Reforged has 10 or so new legends that are all far more interesting to build around than any of the KTK options.
Have recently updated the deck through KTK/C14. This deck remains one of the strongest decks I've built and is still incredibly fun without being TOO overpowered.-Khalni Gem-Wayfarer's Bauble-Spellskite-Vesuvan Shapeshifter-Deadeye Navigator-Pariah-Soul Snare-Condemn-Curse of the Swine-Stolen Identity-Reliquary Tower-Strip Mine-Terramorphic Expanse+Marshal's Anthem+Loyal Retainers+Sensei's Divining Top+Containment Priest+Arcane Lighthouse+Oblation+Jazal Goldmane+Comeuppance+Flooded Strand+Jalira, Master Polymorphist+Clever Impersonator+Sacred Mesa+Riptide Laboratory
Find a better playgroup, boring players play boring games. Decks can be extremely competitive/cutthroat if that's what you're looking for. The best decks can still combo off before turn 3 which is just as strong as legacy/modern. "Bad cards" are entirely meta and format specific... What's good in Standard is terrible in Modern and what's good in Modern is terrible in Vintage. It's a SLIGHTLY slower format but you still have access to the entire history of magic and 5-6x as many different cards in every deck (instead of 10-15 unique nonland cards you've got 60+). What's not quite good enough for one format is a powerhouse in a format with so many additional options and 2-3 extra turns before shit hits the fan.
It's not a sanctioned format. It's a FNM sanctionable format. There's a big difference. ...and they made EVERY IMAGINABLE FORMAT FNM sanctionable so that doesn't mean anything. The EDH Rules Committee still controls the banned list and EDH rules. Wizards has no intentions of taking it over.
Talrand works really well to trigger Ephara. There's 16 spells with several that shuffle back in or can trigger more than once plus an easily bouncable Snapcaster. He's not going to be as strong as he is in a dedicated Talrand deck but he provides pretty great card advantage and added benefits to the slow control plan.
Untap -> Upkeep -> Draw. You do not untap after tapping lands in your upkeep.
List has now been updated with the current built deck.
Will be getting a major overhaul as I get my hand on the necessary cards. Current list is intentionally rough to give SCG something to "fix". :)
Indeed....
-Cloudstone Curio +Chromatic Lantern
-Death Grasp +Grim Return
Yes, this is an EDH deck. It's quite brutal so far in testing.
So I've got a few games in with this now that I've put it together and using the M14 rules. I must say it is particularly brutal. I didn't expect it to be quite as strong as it has been in the few games that I have played so far.
If you're playing control, Charisma or Deathtouch equipment on T&L can be pretty brutal. Especially when all your stuff flies.
This deck was highlighted in Dear Azami #101 on Starcitygames.com. Anyway, I've since revised it a bit based both on his suggestions, my own ideas and available card base (He kind of missed the point on some of the inclusions but I've still tweaked things a bit to make some things better). Currently, this is the list that I'll be putting together once the cards get here that I ordered with the $20 gift card. It may need some additional tweaks upon testing but it's a good start.
Flicker effects are definitely needed for detain to work. A set of Restoration Angel's would be amazing here. Ghostly Flicker wouldn't be terrible either. I would play 2 or even 3 Lavinia's here. She can lock out the majority of someone's board so it's not at all a bad idea to pull more than one. Once the new legend rule rolls out, you can just cast her and keep the one without summoning sickness to replicate the effect. You need some way to actually win while controlling the board. Geist of Saint Traft can be a pretty quick clock. Ætherling is another powerful option to get in there while they're detained. Both are extremely hard to remove.
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