Immolation Blitzkrieg

It is not exactly cheap... the enlightened tutor breaks the budget

+1^ make this modern playable and go laugh when you beat $1000 decks at fnm, Good luck!

Without Enlightened Tutor, this is $14 lol

With the life loss, you could just sacrifice Children of Korlis. That's also something to if you don't get Assault Strobe

Why is enlightened tutor suddenly so cheap? Last time I checked, it was about 30 dollars each.

My guess is that people stopped using it. That or there was a new version of it released
There maybe also a similar card that has been released in Theros block

Hate to burst your bubble but the loss of life from pumping your creeps can't be reversed by Children of Korlis. Paying life is not damage.

Card Rules
Sacrifice Children of Korlis: You gain life equal to the life you've lost this turn. (Damage causes loss of life.)

Sorry to burst YOUR bubble but those are the exact words of the rules copied from the Children of Korlis page. Where you may have gotten it wrong is the part where it says "(Damage causes loss of life)"

Loss of life can't be prevented. Dems the rules, I didn't make 'em we just all have to play within them. Any judge will confirm this.

The reason it says (Damage causes loss of life) is so you can't gain life from damage you didn't take. For example: Your opponent hits you with a Fireball for 7 and you use Hold at Bay to prevent that damage. You can't then sacrifice the Children to gain an ADDITIONAL 7 life.

Nothing can prevent 'loss of life' or 'pay X life'. Period. End of story. If you make this Modern legal and try and pull that the judge will rule against you every time. It's pretty much Magic 101.

@grizz: Read the card. It's not about preventing life loss, it's about gaining life equal to the amount of life lost that turn. Life loss isn't prevented. Life is gained based on amount of life lost. Further, Gatherer's "Rulings" states that...

"The life you gain is based on the total of all changes where your life total went down during the turn, not the net downward change. So if you lose 5 life, gain 3 life, and then lose 2 more life before activating this ability, the ability causes you gain 7 life, not 4."

...which tends to indicate that someone playing this deck, with 2 CoK in play could pump the Souleater once (say for 18 life...), sac a first CoK, pump the Souleater again (for another 18 life...), then sac the second CoK, not for 18, but for 36 life back, effectively bringing the player to 38 life (assuming 20 life total to begin with...) and the Souleater to +18/+0.

Then again, I'm no judge.

According to what ive seen on magic online, you are right Panik. The total life that has gone down from your life at the beginning of your turn. so in theory you can pay life than gain it back yes?

Paying with life is a form of life loss so it would work.

thank you for confirming+1^

I mean idk what there is to get confused about? If you lost life this turn you double..
Doesn't specifically say combat damage.

Viagrasaurusrex has deleted this comment.

Idk but people didnt think it worked for some reason. MTGO is your friend, if it works onm there it works period. lol its where i go with questions

The souleater if you pay the life into , doesn't Children of Korlis work then ????? I am confused

@d77: I'd think so, but like I said, I'm not a judge. Zaklax13 seems to indicate he tested it on Magic Online and it worked there, so all signs point to yes.

Mortal's Ardor is a nice new back up card !

@grizz Also, I'd like to note that loss of life can be prevented, if there is an effect saying that life totals cannot change (e.g. Platinum Emperion). In that case, you could not pay any amount of life besides 0. (Pretty sure, but please correct me if I'm wrong)

Children of Korlis definitely works with Immolating Souleater.

That's what the Protection from chosen colours spells are for. Just punch straight through anything other than artifact creatures.

If you went blue instead of white for mizzum skin and apostle blessing works and unblock able cards d strike or aqueous form or artful dodge , may be better but cool white red combination or a few card to tap creatures works to actually

I'd splash blue as well, for unblockable and hexproof.

There's really no need as you get unblockable and hexproof (essentially) from the colour protection.

I've got double cleave in there for that, I do like boros charm as it has a few uses but I prefer the mana cost of double cleave.

Yeah, I didn't even think of Phyrexian Unlife

what would you take out, that would not interfere with the combo?

He has 8 double strike cards. He could go down to 6. So there is room for 2 Phyrexian Unlife.

It's a nice thought but the deck isn't for late game really. I'd rather try and keep the double strike cards in so there's more of a chance of drawing them at the start of the game.

How about the Armed half of Armed and Dangerous for a +1/+1 and double strike over double cleave. Love more+1/+1 counters!

Hope you run it, I'd love to hear how it goes!

Yeah, I ended up taking it to a completely different direction. I'm still tinkering it, but it's now mono-white and I like to think it's more versatile, but it's all on paper and in my head. Although I'm still around the $25 budget, so I might just order or proxy the cards I'm missing and see how it goes.

or something that allows you not to gain life, so a revoke existence sideboard and or o rings work

i love the combo, check out my infinite turn setup! gotta add in my own lol

http://www.mtgvault.com/zaklax13/decks/infinite-turns/

Haha you're welcome. I've been looking to replace the Mad Prophet with something and I think Magma Jet would probably work best as the deck is lacking in removal. All the CoK combo does is reset the life that you lose so you don't actually gain or lose anything.

Unless you have 2 of them =). And pump your Souleater before using the second one. It's safe to say that if they hit you for 5 or more your combo will be on the table.

Could you weigh in on a hardcore burn deck? You seem to like red.

http://www.mtgvault.com/knightofthehokeypokey/decks/firepower/

That's what the colour protection is for. Every deck has a weakness and you can't defend against them all but with the prot spells it stands a very good chance for early game.

http://www.mtgvault.com/dragon77/decks/white-red-beatdown/, here a twist i came up with pretty much the same but some new ideas

Agreed, protection is as underrated as lifegain I'm afraid.

I just finished making a killer burn deck, so I have a tendency to overcompensate. Spellskite is probably completely redundant here. However, it can stop spells from connecting with your face, whuch protection can't do.

Yeah facial protection is something to look into, maybe a new ability in Core 2015? :). I like red, it's generally the deck colour I steer towards if I get new ideas.

Black for me. That's why my decks are stacked with removal

Look in the comments up top. It has been explained. It works.

Well, I get Gladiatorw07f's (and everyone-else-who-monetioned-it's) point, in that, technically, there could be a difference between "loss of life" and "spending life as Phyrexian Mana/to activate any ability". I personally disagree with that opinion, but until someone provides a reliable source indicating if this combo works or not, anyone's guess is just as good as mine.

That being said, I'll refer everyone to the following rules, straight from the Holy Bible of MTG.

"118.8. If an effect says that a player can’t lose life, that player can’t make an exchange such that the player’s life total would become lower; in that case, the exchange won’t happen. In addition, a cost that involves having that player pay life can’t be paid."

In this case, the rules do seem to treat "paying life as a cost" the same way as any other kind of life loss. That said, this particular rule obviously doesn't apply here, but it tends to indicate that this combo would work. Logically, if life can't be used to pay a cost because an effect prevents life loss, then an effect that would return life loss should treat life used to pay a cost as life lost.

Also, there's this rule, which actually seems to directly apply, here, see the last sentence...

"118.4. If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0, the player may do so only if his or her life total is greater than or equal to the amount of the payment. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from his or her life total; in other words, the player loses that much life."

Again, I'm no judge, just because I interpret rules one way, doesn't make it so, but the wording of the last sentence seems pretty clear to me, then again, maybe they didn't have this card in mind when they wrote that rule...

(Edit: For the record, I'm not a "I want to be right." kind of guy. I'll be very happy whether I'm proven right or wrong, I'm just the kind of guy who likes to verify and debate things. I'm pretty sure if this combo was used against me, I'd be biased against it... :P)

Ruling on children of koralis from gatherer:

"9/25/2006 The life you gain is based on the total of all changes where your life total went down during the turn, not the net downward change. So if you lose 5 life, gain 3 life, and then lose 2 more life before activating this ability, the ability causes you gain 7 life, not 4. "

Leaving me to assume anything that causes your life to decrease is loss of life

@Zaklax: Yup, that's also how I interpreted that, when I posted it, earlier, but the 2 rules I posted today, straight from the rule book are even clearer, in my opinion, and don't leave much to be assumed. I really think this works, and will keep thinking so until a judge rules otherwise...

~~~ EDITED OUT, after Jessie's comment, idea was too good to be true. ~~~

I agree with you Panik8. Pretty nasty combo. What I meant above is that if you pay life Children of Korlis still works, it fixes any drop in total life.

Does not work, Panik8
You would need 19 mana for Bond of Agony.

Doh! I misread Bond of Agony... :( Thanks!

Actually it does, variable X in bond of agony is the amount of life you pay to cast it. So it costs 1 mana and X life.

Nope, Jessie's right. According to rulings...

"2013-04-15 You must pay both X life and {X}{B}. For example, if you want each other player to lose 2 life when Bond of Agony resolves, you must pay {2}{B} and 2 life."

Just looked at the card. would be great with Liliana from M14. about the only use for either of those 2....

Well, time to make a high tide deck.

High tide, huh? Consider Palinchron. It is an infinite mana loop. Then Stroke of Genius them for all their cards.

Fun stuff.

And to Panik8. I don't think it was your fault, man! I mean, you read the card right. Magic the Gathering should of put "You must pay both X life and {X}{B}" on the card.

I guess Magic the Gathering thinks we are all magical and just know unspoken rules.

Not faulting you at all.

The comprehensive rulebook and multiple rulings on questionable cards (like Eye of the Storm and Isocron Scepter) tend to make me believe that Wizards is fine with being real specific.

Secondly, we know that damage causes loss of life. Where is it written that paying life does not cause loss of life. It's perfectly logical to assume it does. However, since paying life is part of the cost of a spell, it can't be prevented.

For a parallel example, take sacrifice and destroy. Both send a creature to the graveyard, and therefore trigger all related effects. However, sacrifice can't be prevented by indestructible or regenerate.

In conclusion, paying life is only different from damage in that it can't be prevented by damage prevention spells/abilities, simply because you are not taking damage.

On s different tack, it seems obvious to me that if your life total decreases for any reason, you have lost that much life. You have X less life than before. If paying life did not cause you to lose life, would you not lose any life when using Souleater's ability? That's just silly.

In conclusion, if one's life total decreases, one has lost life, just like saying that when a creature dies it is in the graveyard. It's that simple. I think we are thinking about this too deeply.

Honestly, the complicated parts of magic have to be resolving spells on the stack, combat, targeting, and situations invoking the can/can't rule (when in doubt, can't wins).

I actually disagree, I completely misread it, so it's mostly my fault. I just wanted to reproduce my Channel deck in Modern format so bad... :)

I mean, top-right corner always indicates mana-cost, and no where on the card does it imply that {X} can be paid with life. In fact, it clearly states that player must pay life as an additional cost.

Compare it with Toxic Deluge, for example (the only other Modern "as an additional cost, pay X life" example I could find, actually), its mana cost is {2}{B}.

Then again, I agree with the part where at this point in time, we (or Wizards) can't expect everyone to know how to play every card from every era, especially with similar rules or cards being worded differently, and so many synergies that often seem counter-intuitive, and sometimes even completely paradoxal, yet legal (or not).

That's what I love about MTG, too. It's a game of logic, where most (reasonable) players will be able to argue, discuss and even negotiate the rules, in case of a disagreement, and without a judge sitting by to resolve it "officially".

Great exchanging with you!

@HokeyPokey I do mtg online and agrree. You can use Children to gain back the paid life, but you cannot prevent it

I just can't comprehend how people don't get it. If you and your opponent disagree, flip a freaking coin! Only reserved for unreasonable, stubborn opponents that refuse to compromise (it's casual play, not a standard tournament for pete's sake) ... and if you are forced to play with someone like that, to quote the great revised edition pocket players guide:

Richard Garfield: "This is silly - only incredibly stupid and terminally anal people could POSSIBLY misinterpret this card."

Jim Lin: "Yes, maybe we HAVE been thinking about this too long. If you're playing with that kind of person, you should find some new friends."

That's the voice of reason, straight from the game developers themselves. Their commentary is the only reason I keep this book around. Revised rules are so ludicrously out of date that you could count the number of named creature abilities on one hand.

Not to csll anyone stupid and anal - remember these poor guys had to WRITE the comprehensive rules. Yikes.

@Panik8 I agree that an X denoting pay life is completely conter-intuitive. The strive mechanic makes more sense - maybe wizards could come up with a name/better explanation for variable overload spells. Oh well - however, Phyrexian mana, affinity, or miracle are awesome - brilliant, simple, and easy to understand.

Great exchanging with you!

I've been playing since Ravnica city of guilds and I only did casual at first. I then met someone whom attempted to get me into standard (this was during the avacyn block) and I realized I was doing A LOT wrong. So I can see where it's hard to understand certain aspects and rulings of certain things. Though, in this case, even I agree with the assumption that this combo would work. I mean it's all pretty straight forward, if you're life total goes down for any reason then you've obviously lost life. Just like if for whatever reason you're life total increases, then you've gained life. There's no gray areas there really. On a side now, Meddling Mage's rulings/wording has always bothered me. The wording suggests that the effect should be permanent, but the rulings say otherwise and that's always bothered me..

I've never played with or against meddling mage, but i figured as long as its alive it should be in affect. its like hypnotic specter. when he dies you cannot play the cards exiled with him, even though the card does not state that. that will always bug me

That was supposed to say "On a side note," not "now," but yeah as long as meddling mage is on the field it's ability is in affect, but that's what bothers me cause the wording on the card doesn't specify. The rulings do, but the card doesn't. I mean I guess it'd be safe to assume that the effect would go away with meddling mage, but I'd just prefer it if they'd specify more to avoid technicalities.

Oops I meant night veil specter anyways

Yeah, specify on cards like eye of the storm (that it's own copies can't activate it) so the whole copy mechanic isn't baffling even to experienced players in some circumstances.

I agree about Apostle's Blessing, but I don't get your comment on Enlightened Tutor.

You "lose" a card, but gain so much reliability/consistency. Consider this deck pretty much relies on a single card to win (Immolating Souleater). You want to make sure you draw that card in your opening hand, without having to mulligan down to 3 cards... That said, I'd also take the Tutor out, but only for the sake of making this deck Modern-legal, but I already mentioned that. :)

Ritual of Restoration, Rebuff the Wicked, Intervention Pact and Angel's Grace also look like they'd be very good in this deck.

Nice modern compatible deck search .... agreed.

So, offer advice to other people.

I am!
I was never on this but now I'm on it about every day to look cool decks...
I have been looking into a devour deck

Mycoloth. Vorel of the Hull Clade. Primal Vigor. Master Biomancer. That is all.

I am happy to take a look and share the little I know. I'm pretty good, but for real amazing advice there are far better than I. I am good at finding specific cards on gatherer.

I'm making a black/red/green devour...
But really want ideas for my green deck i have

I have all of those cards and I'm always wanting to make it better hopefully without spending big bucks....
For mono green big creature deck i know you could have vigor,elvish piper, primeval Titan... But those are expensive

Thts why i want people to look at my green. I will say it is a good deck.. I have a nice group of friends and we will play emperor and i have never lost being the emperor.. Great late game deck

"I am happy to take a look and share the little I know. I'm pretty good, but for real amazing advice there are far better than I. I am good at finding specific cards on gatherer."

That is me too, KnightoftheHokeyPokey.

Decent deck builder.
Decent player.
Decent with understanding rules.
But really good at suggesting cards (if I understand the deck).

I will definitely take a look at your deck.

Thanks, I have to admit that pumping all of the life into the Souleater wasn't my idea but everything else is completely original. I have made other decks before but nothing ever came of them so I'm quite chuffed with this.

I do have to say the cards are cheap to... I see card combos tht are expensive
Like $10 per card which is dumb... But this is just cheap as can be.. Like i actually have those cards! Lol

Yes its not bad at all, like I said good job on the build

Oh and the name change is very cool

True dat, but all decks have a weakness. This deck would similarly lose if I nailed Mr. Immolating with a Lightning Bolt.

Secondly, with all the deck search, it's highly probable that Immolating Souleater and company (a protection spell) will be or might be in hand after a few mulligans.

I do have a fog/mill deckX) poop on this deck haha
24 fogs 20 mill 18 land lol

That's just plain evil!

Also, your villain can make dramatic entrances thanks to the fog!

What's it's name? Fog of War?

I could put the fog/mill deck on here! I wont be home until tomorrow around like night time buuut
I will post it and u can see it
And tht sounds like an awesome name!
And I'm actually thinking about going to a modern Wednesday tournament and using tht deck

I don't think 24 fogs would be legal but u could use isochron scepter and more versions of fog

That's what the Children of Korlis is for. If things don't go so well then you just reset your life back to 20 and try again. There's a few comments at the top regarding the combo.

No there is cards like tht.. I have 4 fogs, 4 constant Mist, respite

yep I love the children of korlis I was putting together a casual deck with the children,channel, and fireball
http://www.mtgvault.com/vaan104/decks/channel-death/ should piss off a few friends lol

And there is more but not 24 fogs? Maybe i should of said prevent combat damage

nice u could still drop some of the prevent spells if u ran isochron scepter

Yeah tht would be cool! But i dont want to spend money.. I spent like a couple of bucks for the entire deck and i had half the mill cards lol... I made it and my friend made same kind with some creatures and we 2 headed giant other friends and win lol.. But to just think about it i feel like its a good 1v1 deck
I mean prevent all damage... (Stall) then mill them lol

You mean something like this?
http://www.mtgvault.com/panik8/decks/immolating-wall-of-blood/

It does look viable. Interesting take on it.

I already suggested it, friend!

"A red/ black version of this deck shows much promise.:
1) Tainted Strike comes to mind. Pay 6 life to make Souleater 4/4 then play Tainted Well and Assault Strobe. 3rd turn Infect win.
2) Wall of Blood/Fling. Cast Wall of Blood, then sack life and then Fling him."

You mean ... Finish Him!

that would be a good addition

Over what though? On turn 4 the game should be over. If it isn't then turn 4 should be spent drawing cards, or dropping the card he needs to win, like a dragon or souleater.
Faithmender is a decent card, but does it have a place here?

Im thinking in the mindset that you wont always win on turn 3, so this is a back up plan

Question still stands on what to drop for a 4 mana creature.

over enlightened tutor to make it moodern legal?

ini think enlightened tutor needs to go either way, this would get spanked in legacy. but in modern this wouldnt be to bad. faithless looting might be good, cheap card draw

Why? Against any competitive modern or legacy deck if you haven't won on turn 3 with this deck odds are good that you're going to lose.

Exactly my point if you need to use tutor to get the souleater you probably lost in legact. not always in modern

Hey +1'ed you, im always down for constructive discussion

Not so much, Tutor is turn 1. Souleater is turn 2. So if you have it in your hand, cool, but tutor is an enabler that greatly increases the odds you're going to drop it on turn two. If they're going to force of will your tutor, then they'll force of will your Souleater if you don't play tutor.
In modern you'll see your fair share of counterspells and removal. Counters and removal is in every format. Making it modern legal honestly won't make winning with this deck any easier.

I'm just thinking with dredge, grislebrand, dark depths, there's a lot mor chance of them having a huge turn 2 creature in legacy. I play both, and legacy is a lot stronger and faster than modern

To be fair, a turn two Dark Depths is basically the god hand and/or top deck. Dredge is just a strong deck, to be competitive against dredge he could easily sideboard Tormod's Crypt or Grafdigger's Cage. Re-animator is also answered with Crypt/Cage. You're also talking about money decks, and to be completely fair, money decks will always be hard to beat on a budget. I mean, a turn one Griselbrand is still hard to deal with even if your playing a legacy competitive deck.
I mean, this deck will crush, I mean crush Sneak and Show if they don't have a force of will in hand.

That is why, by far, my favorite decks/cards are blue bounce. And that is why Mtg does not make really amazing bounce cards like they did in the past.

Bounce absolutely destroys combos/designed decks. For sure, for sure.

I will cede that couch. think this is was competitive as budget can get modern/legacy. Some creative thing pull through in the budget category. Like the turn two infect decks-
http://www.mtgvault.com/zaklax13/decks/infected-fun/

Oh I know, I've played with Infect and against it. I've played against most Tier one legacy decks, they're fun for sure. Currently I'm running the Painter-Stone combo. Elves or Affinity are my go-to decks though.

I'm a burn guy for sure, but I just traded off every non-red fetch land I had to get the rest of my dark depths deck

I'm unsure how to feel about that. Dark Depths is good, but, trading fetch lands.
I like to play with everything, so needing fetches of every combination is a thing for me.

The only ones I ever seem to use are arid mesa and scalding tarn. But I received 2 dark depths, 3 Liliana, 3 obliterator, and 1 dark confidant

As a blue player, I object to Tolarian Academy being banned in legacy.

i like some of the little changes you made. i still wanna put some form of this together

Nope, i can't offer advice to you on Boros.
But guess what kicks Boros Butt?

A 3/6 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.

1st. Master Biomancer (turns creatures into mutants when they come into play)
2nd. Horned Turtle (now a mutated turtle)
3rd. Sakashima's Student (clones the mutant turtle and turns him into a Ninja).

Probably stronger than even Storm Crow!

Check it out:
http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles/

Lol did you make that just to get back at the scammers? I'm impressed

Nope, that was me scamming without trying to look like I was :)

i guess it would work as a mid-late game tactic but the actual point of this deck is to win in the first 3 turns. as for replacing cards i could not say, it would be your decision really with how you would like to take the deck. :)

Yeah i think you're right, there's nothing that i want to lose from this combo and i'm finding it extremely hard to pin point a card myself. I think i'll keep him for a more suited deck, thanks for the advice!

i think if you were going to change any cards it would be academy raider or mad prophet as they aren't essential to the deck. i hope it works out for you.

With abilities like that, your wife will go places

Someone else posted the same thing actually. I do like the different effects of Boros Charm but I prefer the mana cost flexibility of Double Cleave as you aren't guaranteed to get the right mana every game for Boros.

Lol that's funny, well at least you know the rules

To date: to the question, "What colour is an Island?"
I have tried:
1) colorless
2) colourless
3) blue
4) Blue

Kinda running out of options.

Umm ... it's colorless. That's why I can't take Pentarch Paladin and decimate an opponent's land base. Usually. Unless a painter's servant is on the field.

Hmm ... how 'bout "uncolored". :)