[Standard/Infinite-Combo] Bees

25/8 good job bro. cant wait to see this deck pop off

http://www.mtgvault.com/ironmoose/decks/873499/ here my deck bro

Moose -Dow

Not exactly original, almost completely copy and pasted

its a really good combo

the main thing im worried about in this deck is control decks

narfnarf has deleted this comment.

Every combo deck worries about control.

Would it be smart to splash blue and add a little control and turbo

Indeed, fighting a setessaned midnight guard and a +1/+1 hornet's nest would kill the guard in just four fights...

The nest wouldnt have +1+1 it would just have indestructible

How so? Ajani's presence clearly states ''Any number of target creatures each get +1/+1 and gain indestructible until end of turn.'' Targetting hornet's nest with it does give it +1/+1

exactly, otherwise the guard would be killed by the nest

I don't think here anything in Standard right now the just give off hexpoof or indestructible. That +1/+1 on the nest is no good. I can see one way out Ajani's Presence 2 time that is Midnight/Nest then you got hell of beed

http://www.mtgvault.com/ironmoose/decks/manannán-mac-lir/

Tell me what you think

gonna Swithc it with ephemeral shields

Nice, totally forgot about that .

thats what rangers guile, gods willing, and ephemeral shields is for i think,

Good point! I didn't see that.

You are only partially correct. Fight damage isn't the same as combat damage. However, nowhere does hornets nest say that it must take combat damage to trigger it's ability, just damage.

Also incidentally neither does death touch say that. However, first strike damage is still combat damage anyways. So it still would work.

deathtouch doesn't work in a fight. Power vs. toughness. that's it. this combo doesn't work. sorry.

look up the rules for deathtouch.
Giant Scorpion, which has deathtouch, states that the rules for deathtouch are: Any amount of damage this deals to a creature is enough to destroy it.
http://www.mtgvault.com/card/giant-scorpion/M13/ here is the card, just so you can double check.

also, Fight states that a creature DEALS DAMAGE to target creature equal to its power, which is still dealing damage from the creature.
If an instant or sorcery states that it deals damage equal to target creature's power that is different, as it isn't the creature dealing the damage. however, with Fight, that simply isn't the case. the creatures themselves deal the damage, thus deathtouch still applies. first strike does not however, since it isn't combat.

fighting is not damage. if that was true your nest would die after 2 fights as damage only heals at the end of combat. quit fighting me on this.

actually damage does not wear off at the end of combat, it wears off at the end of turn, which is why I can block a 4/4 with a 1/1 ,and then lightning bolt the 4/4 and kill it after combat has happened but before the end of the turn.
so no matter how the damage was taken, whether it be combat, or non-combat damage it doesn't matter.

As for Nest dying yes it would die. in fact it would die from only a single fight, because the card here that allows for Fight to occur also give +1/+1. However, BMGApache has Ephemeral Shields, which makes target creature indestructible anyways, thus negating the worry about having Hornet's nest die at all.

now if the Fight ability gave -/- to the creature, THAT isn't damage, and so would get around the Nest's ability, but nothing here is doing that.

also... why are you arguing with me on the rules of Fight when clearly the ability states that each creature DEALS DAMAGE to the other creature. as shown here on Blood Feud.

http://www.mtgvault.com/card/blood-feud/DKA/

in all honesty your lack of rules knowledge is making me sad. I am not trying to argue with you, but rather help you understand the game better. I hope that you can realize that.


If Fight isn't damage, then why do the creatures die from it? How would you classify it?

also, rectifying a previous statement, as I may have misunderstood your use of deathtouch AGAINST first strike as deathtouch WITH first strike. my apologies. in which case that is correct, first strike does beat deathtouch, as the deathtouch creature doesn't actually get to deal any damage because it is dead before it can do so.

either way, how does first strike not work but deathtouch does? moving on...
if you use the nest to fight it will eventually die from progressive damage. 'Protection from...' would fail since you couldn't even target the creature while protection is active. You could make it indestructible but seriously at this point why? That is a lot of spells to get off a one trick pony that can fall to bile blight, scouring sands or drown in sorrow. I love killing tokens en masse.

Well, deathtouch works because it doesn't require combat, whereas first strike only takes effect during combat. First strike creatures deal combat damage before creatures without first strike (or double strike, which deals first strike AND regular combat damage.).

And as for the indestructible being "pointless"... Yes it is obvious that tokens can be killed en masse, but that isn't the point. The point is that you can create an infinite amount of tokens. You can only nuke them all so many times anyways, particularly in standard.


And since there is blue in this deck, counter spells could be put in the side board and subbed in if anti token cards are used. Which in most standard matches those are too specific to run mean board in the first game anyways.

could sideboard intangible virtue to combat that. although it isn't standard anymore so... :(

Bile Blight for instant / Drown in Sorrow for sorcery
Starndard solution.

um... not entirely sure how either of those combat illness in the ranks, since they do something similar.
however, I guess that illness in the ranks isn't standard either. :) still... would need to find an answer to those cards in standard.

Negate deals with Blight/Drown. You could throw a few in your sideboard.

And Hushwing Gryff for it SB

actually I think that hushwing would be kind of counter productive here, since the deck focuses on having creatures enter the battlefield to untap midnight guard.

on the counter spell front, Swan Song wouldn't be a bad idea, as well as negate. and if Cancel, then Dissipate or Dissolve might be better, since they are the same mana cost, but have additional abilities.

moose you're bad

LOL right miss read it my bad

its all good. :)

Straight up copy pasta

All the yes Copy and Past about 97% of it I did 3% my own words

so you have BEE-n thinking about it?

Ha ha :) very funny

I try. :) sometimes I actually even say something funny. :)

that would just make another piece to pull out from my deck

if you would do this competitive, how would you run it?

Well I doubt this could be reliable enough for serious contention but I'd suggest right of switching Shields for Ajani's Presence (same function with just a single W), cut Taigams completely it's just not a good card, remove 1 of each basic land and using those 3 spaces and the space from one of the Taigams add 4 Flooded Strand, with the 2 remaining spaces add 2 Disdainful Stroke. That should get you a little more reliable, might consider cutting the Confluences for Temple of Mystery since UG is the color pair you need most.

no, but they have deathtouch. :)

it didnt hit walkers, and in this standard it was slow enough that the one mana didnt matter back then