Standard: Azorius Control M15

It's standard control. Control decks don't usually play cards turn one. Unless they run Elixir of Immortality. Or Esper, they'll run Thoughtseize.

Oh, crap. I don't play Standard. So would not know. I do know I hate playing catch up. But truth be told, that is the style of control decks. Responding to their threats versus you throwing down threats and making your opponent respond to you.

Lol it's all good. Yea this is standard. I was wondering why you made that comment until I looked at your decks.

Yep. That is one of my number one pet peeves. People not running very many 1cmc cards. It irks me. That and having no artifact/enchantment hate in their decks. But apparently, it is very common in Standard to do both of those two things.

With that said though, this deck would be right up my alley, if I ever tried to do Standard.

Thought of Waste Not? Building a deck around that? I don't play Standard, so it looks nice to me. But I do not know if there are enough Standard cards to play Waste Not successful.

SO, dumb question, has M15 rotated in? Officially? And, if it did rotate in, what got rotated out, if anything?

It depends on the deck type and how the meta is. Right now it's not uncommon to see standard decks with a lot of enchantment hate because Theros brought a lot of enchantments into the meta. But standard control decks run slow and are set on slowing down your opponents tempo. Aggro and midrange decks might have a few 1 cmc creatures and spells though.

Yep, Theros made my Serra Sanctum card go through the roof. Nearly doubled in one week. But it has started going back down.

Nice deck. Glad to see it get support!

Thank you!

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^You clearly have never played a control deck before...

The only control worthy creatures right now are:
Prog sphinx
Carytid
courser of kruphix
Haunted plantmail (if you count that)

Dude! How can you forget AEtherling??? And I'm guessing Kingcobrael23 is a new player.

I only listed cards that weren't rotating lol.

Oh. My bad, lol.

Honestly, looking at it now, Scuttling Doom Engine wouldn't be a bad control card. Especially after a board wipe.

It has potential, considering the only good wipe post rotation is aether spouts. leaving it on the board.

Something might get printed in the next set. At least I'm hoping so but if not there is still Fated Retribution at least. I just now threw it in my B/G deck. Has a good combo with Life's Legacy but I wouldn't hesitate to run it in control. I pulled two in the booster box I bought.

I am hoping for either a damnation reprint, or at the very least a black version of day of judgement.
Fated is ok, but having a wipe at 7 is very different than at 4 or 5.

I wouldn't mind a mutilate reprint.

I would be fine with that, the reason I want damnation is because its 40$ to buy into in modern and it sees next to no play... Maybe it'll be in modern master 2.0.

Mutilate would be good but without shocks it's awkward in 3 colour decks. I'm not a fan of B/G atm, BUG on the other hand( i just made a bug list for post rotation earlier today) Superfriends is looking good.

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Three years isn't long in Magic at all. And there are all different types of Azorius decks. This is a control deck and they hardly have creatures, if any.

I don't play "azorius decks" persay, but I do always play "control decks" and I can say you really don't have your facts striaght King.
Go look up the best Azorius decks in standard right now, I'm sure most of them will have even less creatures than this one.

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http://magic.tcgplayer.com/standard_deck_hq.asp
The above is a link that can be considered a rough idea of what the current standard meta should look like.

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?deck_name=Azorius Control&Format=Type+II&latestset=JOU
The decklists of azorius decks that have top'8 a tcg open. (which is easier to do than a gp or pt. and yet no creature based azorius decks made it.

I never said I was an expert and your opinion of me isn't going to bother me. Please go troll some place else.

I will make an azorius deck in a bit when i get home and you can tell me how good it is.

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You're talking about two completely different types of decks. Azorius heroic decks are aggro decks. They are going to have lots of creatures maybe with some control cards thrown in. Control decks focus entirely on stalling out the opponent and ruining their tempo until they can win the game with their planeswalkers or the few creatures they have.

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Jace, Memory adept comes in against control mirror matches. Control decks don't like being milled. Caller of the Pride wouldn't do anything at all in this deck because I hardly run any creatures. He's more for aggro decks.

http://www.mtgvault.com/viagrasaurusrex/decks/azorius-control/

I made a main board Azorius deck in like 3 min.

Just because it has the work "azorius" mean we are refering to the colours the deck consists of, AZ's deck here and the one I just posted are both completely viable decks. Playing control is like nothing else in magic, every card counts if you use the wrong one at the wrong time it can cost you the game. It's all about mind games, let them over extend, take some damage, then BOOM 4-5 for 1. now the game is over and all you were doing was drawing cards and countering spells up until this point.
The game will be over vs a creature deck around turn 6-10(depending on the deck) After that point even if the game goes on 100 turns the creature based deck won't even have a chance. That is how control works.

The way you counter control is either kill them before they can stablize(burn or creature damage), play midrange and just out tempo them and slam a few threats that are hard to deal with(blood baron, mistcutter, etc) If you can protect your threats you will win. In Control vs control, It truly comes down to how the deck is built, the games will always be grindy, though some control decks are made to be others (Esper can beat Azorius control in the long game).

We play control because we like playing our game so much we want you to play our game also, if you like it or not. Every game is a grind, and this is why I love control.

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That's not true at all, one of the main things while playing control is hitting a land drop EVERY SINGLE TURN. This means we need a ton of card draw. Rev allows us to not only refills our hands, but lets us be a bit more careless with our lifetotal(or stablize our life total).
Elixer is played so that when its the late game and we have 8+(pref 12+) lands in play we can shuffle our GY into back into our deck so we are drawing all the removal/disruption/rev's/walkers/etc we used throughout the game.
This means we are more likely to draw the cards we need to keep playing our game.

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I am just explaining how the deck works and why it works, control deck have and will always be a mainstay in standard. Just because we use the word "azorius" doesn't mean it has to be a creature based deck.
We call it "azorius" because the only two colours in the deck are White and Blue. Another name for this deck would be U/W control.
I am just trying to give you the knowledge of how control decks work and why his deck works how it does, you will learn this the longer you play the game.

I myself have played magic for 16 years (I'm 23)

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In his defense if you don't know how a deck works or you don't care how a deck works, then you have no grounds to criticize it and give input. Just sayin.

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children have no respect for elders lol. This kid is trolling hard, not sure why you guys spent so long trying to explain something to him, he either doesn't care, is too stupid, or just enjoys a good troll. Either way, time wasted

Because sometimes people just don't understand and want to, this kid probably plays a lot of call of duty while his mother fancys the milk man.
In the end its not a big deal.

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The troll is real^

The troll trolls elsewhere also. And has thus got a reputation of -30. Pity it doesn't show reputations below 0.

Yeah, I just minus'd him where ever i could.
Like we weren't being rude or anything at first, we just wanted to explain why and how the deck works/is called what it is. I would never try and discourage someone from playing magic as I want this game to be even more popular when I turn 40, I have a baby on the way and you can be sure they will be learning magic as before they're in school haha.
Some people just get so defencive lol, like respect the fact that people know more than other people. Hell I'm sure there are many people on here that know more than me about certain decks or formats.

My daughter is 5 and I made her a pretty simple RDW deck to play. She loves it. Granted she doesn't get ALL of the rules yet but she'll get there. Grats on the baby.

Thank you sir. Me and my lady both play(she's a lot newer and has really been enjoying commander) She is a fast learner though so we buy a box and make sealed decks to face eachother to help her out.
We were just like thinking about making common/uncommon decks or just buying the premade decks as they hold little value and normally are fairly basic.
Gotta start somewhere, RDW is about as easy as it gets haha:P

I don't care what kingcobrael23 says. I love to play this kind of control decks

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Just that you don't understand them?
The most creatures I played in a control deck was 7.
4 snapcasters
3 consecrated sphinx

exactly I play with at 2-7 the highest in control decks

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I told you calling names and unconstructive feedback isn't the way to go, being a beginner or a teenager doesn't change anything, quite the contrary, perhaps. You don't listen, and now look, all your comments have been exiled, just as I'll exile this last one. I don't want to take away the fun of Magic or sharing stuff on MTGVault, but that's what you are doing now. And considering all the -1's you got on your comments, I'm not alone in that. I can't force you to accept that, but we're not forced to accept your behaviour either. Take the hint or grow up.

im sorry. I only just want to learn from the master of mtg and learn to have the knowledge like you guys but I don't want to bother you anymore because im the troll everyone doesn't want to talk to anymore. maybe the troll can troll somewhere else but clearly I never ever going to be like you guys am i.

The way you word anything makes it just seem super sarcastic, along with the fact it seems only your view matters.
You won't ever get better at anything if you don't understand your flaws and fix them.
Sure you may stomp your friends and be all high and mighty because of it, but I dare you to build a format deck(Standard, Modern etc) and compete in an event.
Let us know how it went for you.
We will gladly help you out if you grow up a bit first.

(Before anyone says anything about magic not being all about competitive, I would like to point out this isn't on a casual deck page. If it was I wouldnt have said what I just said.)

Right on.

Well said.

okay I will B/W control deck and let you comment on it

I just made my first azorius control deck so please comment on it

I just edited my standard azorius control deck. go check it and comment

AZ88 Y use a negate vs a countermend?

negate bro

No. The RTR block doesn't rotate out until the last week in September or first week of October. Something like that. RTR is going to be standard legal for a little bit longer.

That's pretty friggin lame. I was hoping the meta game would change. Apparently not.

Lame? Hell no! That's awesome. Rotations have been going on around that same time for a while now.

It is lame. I'm tired of seeing the same three deck archetypes over and over and over again. I can't knock the decks because they win games, but playing against this deck of yours would be completely boring, because I've seen it hundreds of times.

That's how standard decks usually are. Certain cards work that well together and you'll constantly see those same cards/decks all around. If you want a different, creative deck that can beat these then it shouldn't be too hard to make one because these decks are every where. You'll know what cards are being ran and how to beat them. Or just go modern/legacy.

That's why I play legacy. Cards don't lose value and there are many more viable decks.
The problem with making a deck to hate on blue white control is it wouldn't win many other games. So getting a matchup with the other two meta decks would suck.
I only play standard casually because of it. There are three decks, and if you don't play one of them you lose.

That's not entirely true. I've seen people win FNM with all kinds of creative decks. The Unexpected Results decks were one of them to name a few. You just have to put a deck together and tweak it to win against the meta. I assume the archtypes you're talking about are midrange, aggro, and control. Which yea that seems to make up majority of the meta but there have been dredge decks that place. It's a type of aggro deck that utilizes the graveyard to buff up creatures. Doesn't work the way most aggro/midrange decks work.

I've seen the dredge deck. And it will lose to a good control player. They just have to hold on to azorius charms or d-spheres.
It will also lose to good midrange players. And it's all because the dredge deck requires too much setup time.
Blue will also have that one mana blue instant bounce spell in m15, making it better. Knowing that rtr and m15 will be standard at the same time just sounds terrible to me, strictly because we get a lot of interesting cards, but the meta will not change.

The meta never really changes. Different cards just get added and people make aggro/midrange/control decks around those cards. Those will always be top tier decks. The Unexpected Results decks were fun though. Even to play against. Although Render Silent kinda killed them.

I disagree. There used to be a greater variety and more interaction for the players. There were many more ways to abuse the stack in standard. From everything I've seen since rtr, creatures have gotten stronger, spells have gotten weaker, and nothing beats mono black or blue white control. Blue white control has been dominated standard since m14. For instance there is no competitvely viable way to run burn in standard. It used to always be an option. Not anymore.
Blue White Control, Mono Black that sometimes splashes green, a variation of Red Green monsters. That's it, those are the only real competitive decks. Sure, you could run a mono red aggro list or white weenie, but those only sneak in wins. I played variations of many of those decks in standard, trying to make it work. Sure, sometimes I top 8, but that's moreso the lack of skill of my opponents. Top 8 players crush anything not meta.
Legacy and draft are the only events I go to, just because with legacy the meta is there, but there is a huge variety, and you can still make good decks that will win tournements that are new and fun.

I've been playing since the Zendikar block and mostly all decks you saw since then have been midrange/aggro/control and those have appeared on top tier listings since. No idea how long you've been playing but this is just from my perspective. Boros Burn can take control and monoblack devotion easily but if control stalls the game past turn six they've probably lost. Resolute Angel being printed kinda puts a damper on their parade because not even Skullcrack can stop it. Even then Blue Devotion, White devotion, Green devotion, Red devotion, these are all decks I've seen place top 8 or even win and they are very well made for the standard meta. Also kinda sucks that Deicide was printed cause that card alone hurts devotion decks. Doesn't kill their entire deck though. Sometimes it's just down to how the deck gives you the cards you draw.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just saying don't give up on playing standard just cause you see the same decks every where you go. Find cards that combo well with one and that can take out the average meta control/aggro/midrange deck and get them in your own deck. This way you can at least call it your own and that's something no one else can say. Back in Scars of Mirrordin/Innistrad you didn't see monoblack control decks a lot but I made one and it did really well. Won FNM twice.

Bundling them up in midrange/aggro/control basically describes all decks except for mill and burn. I mean there were more variations with different interactions. There was more that I could do as an opponent to blue control varients. Blue control was far more interesting before rtr, by more interesting I mean it was more than, drop a land and pass the turn for 8 turns.
Before, blue control could easily be blue control aggro or blue control burn or blue control mill. With rtr all you saw were blue and white control decks that stalled until turn 8-10. Only with the theros block did some start splashing green.
Just saying, it's getting old. It's like seeing someone play sneak and show or elves in legacy.

Well RTR was a big multicolored block. Kinda like Alara. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the next block will change the meta up.

M15 has raised my hopes and given me one card that I will buy every copy of, ever that card being Chief Engineer. My hopes for Khans are too high.

I haven't seen an artifact deck in awhile. It would be very interesting to go up against one again.

I meant for the turn 1 blightsteel colossus in legacy.

I feel you so much Couch312. And i have heard the same argument from other people too. That Standard is so stale! Same old same old. Puschkin rants about it too. Back in Urza days, there were 6 or more competitive decks. Plus another dozen that could compete with the competitive decks.

Not now...from what I hear. From what i actually hear...Standard is much like any tribal deck...it almost builds itself.

Again, I love this deck posted here, so not talking about it. Just talking about Standard in general.

I really enjoyed looking at this deck, standard or not.

I'll check them out. I used to run Celestial Flare but I'd rather be able to pick what I get rid of rather than my opponent. Granted if you play control right you'll always make it to where Celestial Flare gets rid of what you want it too. Devouring Light was just too good to pass up though.

Flare is only good enough to maindeck if you have a lot of hexproof aggro decks in your meta, besides they there are wayyyy better options.

I'm not opposed to running it maindeck because of Blood Baron of Vizpoka and Stormbreath Dragon. Those are still things in standard play.

I know, but you already have 9 cards maindeck that can deal with those as you shouldnt really be tapping out turn 5 as a control deck.
I still feel its a better SB card.

Maybe. That's a good point. Just saying that if someone did decide to maindeck it I wouldn't be opposed. I just prefer Devouring Light over it

Yeah, thats more what I was getting at with saying its meta dependant.
Fine card, just can be awkward in a lot of game ones.

Thanks! I appreciate that. I thought about the 3 Dissovle and 1 Dissipate idea but I'll wait and see how this current set up plays out. As for Aetherspouts, the only thing indestructible that I could think of are the god cards and those can be handled easily. Detention Sphere, Devouring Light, Azorius Charm, or just sideboard in Deicide to completely get rid of them from my opponents deck. Anything else, just use the already mentioned removal spells. I appreciate your input though!

Oh, well was thinking about Fleecemane Lion if it's ever monsterous, but now that I think about it considering the removal you have, yeah I think you're fine.

Honestly with Wall of Essence, I would LOVE for my opponent to swing with Fleecemane Lion, lol. If Elspeth is out though, I wouldn't mind it too much because it doesn't have trample and the 1/1's can chump him. You don't want to let any Fleecemane Lion just sit on the board and become Monstrous though. Thinking on it now it wouldn't hurt to throw in Celestial Flare some where just in case you come across cards like that. Celestial Flare is still a good card and can help get rid of hexproof/indestructible creatures. Just depends on how you want to play your control deck though.

True, Even Elspeth can take care of monsterous lions. I'm gonna need <a href=http://www.mtgvault.com/hydreigonmuppetmaster/decks/artifacts-flyers-youre-dead></a>"flyers"</a> for this one if that will ever help XD (meant my latest deck), but yeah No need to worry bout the lion now.

Good suggestion but at sorcery speed? Na not liking it. Might as well run Cyclonic Rift. One mana more, instant speed, and let's me overload it if I wanted too.

Huh, good choice, but with Esper control in hands, he could do more than destroy creatures. Whats the point of returning them to the hand if you can send them to the top of the deck and make them waste a bit of a turn, or simply exile them?

To be honest Jace, Living Guildpact would be a better choice too. Bounce's back anything for it to be countered and is another win condition on his own. I'm just not running him cause he's overshadowed by Architect of Thought.

Yeah 2 different Jaces with the same CMC seem bad. AZ88 keep the Archetects until the next block THEN run the Living Guildpacts.

this was meant to be a comment about Devouring Light, not Void Snare, I must have read the above comment stream and got VS in my head while typing. oh well.

You can tap Wall of Essence for convoke can't you? I have looked at it more and more and its becoming iffy. Ill run it and see how it does. I'm at fnm and on my phone so if I have typos my fault.

yes, you can tap WoE, but you arent creature dense enough for a convoke spell to be relevant. 3 cmc is not a bad price, but like I said, Celestial FLare only sees spotty play, and I feel like thats a better spell. TIme will tell on this one.

Since you're a lvl 1 judge, had another question. My opponent swings with two creatures and I have WoE out. If I declare WoE as a blocker and then tap him for convoke to cast devouring light, do I still gain life?

yes. activating abilities does not take a creature out of a block. if it would be assigned lethal damage, it would still die as well.

Edit: unless you use the Devouring Light to kill the creature that WoE is blocking.....then no damage is assigned.

Ok good. Thanks for clearing that up.

np. I have no problem fielding judge questions.

I kinda feel like Mutavault slows my deck down just because it's colorless. I used to run it but gave it up cause there were plenty of times I had it but wished it was something that produced an actual color rather than colorless. Also I don't need Reprisal when I have Devouring Light.

I have the same feeling towards Mutavault. It takes away colorless mana for a mere 2/2 that others consider a "free spell". Bullcrap, and I'll be the only one to think that. Besides, Mutavault's going away anyway so.........

I wonder, just watch friends, how much the price will sink (Mutavault).

Freaking Hasbro! Make people, whom play Standard, buy 20 dollar cards...then they cycle out, and you can buy the same card for 4 bucks. IT has to be aggravating!

Same with Mana Confluence. It is double the price of City of Brass. Wait to it cycle outs...will be interesting to see how much it goes down.

There are actually people, like with stock market, whom sale/buy cards right before and after expansions cycle in/out. They will be trying to sale all of their Mutavaults VERY SOON, before the price plummets. Same deal with the new M15 expansion. They will try to buy, very early on, any cards that look really good...hoping they skyrocket in price (once everyone else realizes the cards potential).

THANK YOU!!!!!

Mutavault will never be $4. it is a $12-15 card forever. you realize that it is a reprint, and was nearly $40 before it got reprinted, right?

Crap, i did not know that.
But besides Mutavault, I have seen it in person.

Prime example, Morphling. It was around 12-15 bucks in standard...now you can buy it for 5 bucks...all day long.
Dozens of other examples. Maybe not with Mutavault....i sounded like an idiot with that one.

At FIRST! But wasn't that the very first price of Mutavault? Didn't it slowly go down or something? If that's not true, then please stand by the fact that it will remain a little more than $10. It should be worth that much to me at the most. Though I still stand by my argument that Mutavault sacs your colored mana for just a 2/2 with mere abilities.

Again, I have just been sounding dumb, on this deck page. lol.
I was trying to say..certain cards...cards that win Standard tourneys (maybe rebels are another example)...when they cycle out, they lose value.

Some. Control decks do run it but in my experirnce I've ran it and always wanted it to be a color producing land.

Mutavault is a staple in a couple Modern decks. the reprint will hurt the long term value, but once M14 is out of print, demand will rise, and supply will fall. It was a $40 card prior to the reprint, and will likely stay near $15-20, after it falls to about $10 after rotation and reclimbs. I will be buying as many of these as I can in the $8-10 range at rotation.

You, NinjaStyle, get the idea. Again, some people (look at card companies) make their living on buying cards at the right time...and selling them at the right time. Sorry AZ88 for clogging up your deck with so many posts :(

It's not a problem. Sorry I'm just now getting home tonight and just now seeing this.

I remember buying a playset of gofys for 80$...
mutavault will always hold a value, until a better card is printed(This probably won't happen as the changling ability is super relevant)

Goyfs were $2 at one point......makes me sick.

Wtf? Really?? When in the blue hell was this?

When it was first released, everyone thought it was a terrible card. It shot up to 50$ a few weeks later.
(to be fair it wasn't nearly as good as it is now)
It basically had the pack rat effect on "its" standard where everyone was like "theres no way in hell this card will see play" and then it morphs the format.

yup. oh, to be the guy who jokingly collected the bad rares during Future SIght.........I had quit right before then, and came back around Zendikar, so I missed the cheap goyf window. I got mine for like $60 each. still good, but still sad.....

^I had like 6 goyfs and sold them when it was around 100$, Wish I held onto them. it's just hard to believe a card that is still getting printed could be that expensive. That was unheard of back then.

Can't wait to see the bant version. Been a while since I've seen a good bant control list. This list seems like fun. Not sure why all the scry lands but I assume the slowness is paid for by the scry power of them.

Yea, control decks love having a lot of scry lands. It helps you pick what you draw into and makes setting up a bit easier.

I figured that's what it is. I'm usually an aggro player for standard/modern or a casual control player. How well does this deck run?

This deck isn't type two yet but the original version of this deck runs very well. The decks that give me issues are Esper control and Monored/Boros Burn. I've taken out monored/boros decks before though with the sideboard but I still can't seem to get a win again'st Esper.

Depends on how you want to play. I prefer to be looking into what I'm drawing into and control loves the scry support. Lots of Azorius Control decks run this set up.

I agree that the scrying is very good but with that manabase you're getting all the drawbacks of playing better cards without actually playing the better cards.

It's worked out for me so far.

I often under value scry...but, if used correctly, it is very efficient.

Nyx-Fleece Ram gains you 1 life at upkeep and yea he has 1 toughness more but your opponent can still attack and buff up a creature early with some bloodrush abilities to get rid of him and all you've gained is one life. Wall of Essence can make them not even want to do that. The life you gain from them wanting to kill off WoE can set them back and give you time to set up the board for complete control. Midrange decks don't really have an issue with this but against aggro decks, if you get Elspeth out, the game is probably in your favor.

Oh, so the wall is more of a deterrent than a blocker, I get it. That makes sense. You could try a 2-2 split, but the list is fine as is.

Still a good blocker. He still holds off a lot of cheap creatures most midrange decks need to plink in damage early game.

Only reason I'm preferring Devouring Light over Last Breath is because Last Breath is limited to a 2 toughness or lower. Devouring Light can hit Mistcutter Hydra, Last Breath can't. Unless your opponent puts Mistcutter out with a toughness of 2 but..no idea why you would do that.

I dont mean to replace it, I mean to add to the removal suite

Ah. Eh I wouldn't know what to take out for it. I'm kinda liking the deck list as is but I wont know what changes to make until I play it.

Test play is key. :)

I know what you mean, in my jund trying to find a replacement for scavenging ooze is so difficult (ended up with Pharika and a whip)

If boss sligh is big in your meta, get those last breaths in ASAP, however if it is monsters or any other midrange decks then its pretty useless apart from hitting scooze or a mystic. EDIT: Or a courser which is pretty relevant

That is what I have found out, on this site. You can recommend cards...but they usually are based on what metagame you play. If you play opponent's with a lot of creatures...you recommend, to other people, creature destruction. If you play a lot of opponent's with control decks...you recommend to people, on this site, combo killers. But a lot of times...people put the cards that they do, in their decks, because they already have in mind whom/what they are playing against.

That's the problem I have especially, purely because of the HUGE difference in the meta between US and the UK. For example I saw a deck that won an American PTQ but I would be surprised if it won an FNM here

Explain, in more detail, if you will? And if AZ88 doesn't mind?
This is intriguing.

Not at all. I'm curious myself to know what he means. I've never played outside of the US.

Basically, because of differences in personality, financial status (I live in quite a rich area) and finally what sort of meta you have. I have a tough meta, there are 2 rooms at FNM, a good one and a not so good one. After round 2 you will find NO fringe decks or any decks weaker than tier 2 in the good room. Then once you build up a reputation, you receive more support (as long as you don't act arrogantly) and eventually you join the ranks of the 'Tier One Fun' group. Only a quarter of the group that play at my store are in that, I'm lucky enough to count myself as one of them. Also since there are a lot more Americans, there will be a lot worse and a lot better players because of the outnumbering of about 5/6 to 1. Also British personality just makes you want to dominate the field, making everyone more competitive. I may make it sound like we are all nazis, but in fact we usually try and help the player you beat as soon as the round finishes (I've had my opponent's at PTQs give me a hand even if I've just steam rolled them 2-0 because they are simply better players than me). To be fair, you guys probably do that too, but I think with the number of people in the US, there will be many opinions, a lot of them poor. While people in the US may choose to play Stoke the Flames rather than lightning strike, and then someone will suggest a poor card and that will get some play. However if that happens here, you get told you are wrong VERY quickly, just very kindly. Overall player to player I think the UK would put up a tremendous fight against the US, unlikely we will see that in Worlds though!

I watched Worlds last year and most of the other countries seem to run a lot of the decks that US players ran. At least it seemed like they did. I've never been stationed outside of the US so I can't really speak on that subject but it's interesting to know that different cards in different locations are being used that probably wouldn't be ran over here.

Ye, for example someone told me that Athreous was huge in his area of the US, athreous would go max of 3-1 but usually 2-2. Last years worlds really can't be put into view, there simply was a best deck. Jund Midrange.

Jund Midrange was really aggressive back in those blocks and control decks took a huge hit during that time. I couldn't catch a break at FNMs and I wasn't very good at American Midrange.

Jund midrange was simply just the best. Aristocrats, U/W/R and (occasionally) RDW would perform, but old faithful just beat them. I played Jund at my first PTQ, a fresh faced noob with it, I still performed very well if I do say so myself. Jund was the best because it offers the best selection of cards most of the time!

Thanks! I was honestly considering the switch of Jace, Memory Adept for Jace, the Living Guildpact. I know Memory Adept tears up mirror matches where as I'm not sure how well Guildpact will do but I'll do some tests with both and see which I prefer.

well you walls can block a 3/3 and live, they cant do the same against obzedat, polly or fliers.
I really like Polymorher's Jest.
There's also aether spouts legal after friday.

Don't really think Polymorphic Jest works in this deck that well but I do like that card. I also like AEtherspouts except it's 5 mana and my opponent gets to choose what goes where. If I got to choose then that would be entirely different. I'm thinking I might try out Rapid Hybridization. Cause my walls can block the 3/3 frog lizard.

Yeah it's just a bad fog in your deck, was just saying I liked it as you mentioned turn to forg lol.
The thing about spouts Is sure they can choose, but it also means you know exactly what they are drawing the next few turns. It sets them back really far, even more so if they were digging for answers.
Its got some hype going I feel it may surprise you, even more so post rotation.

Touche. Well now it's between AEtherspouts and Rapid Hybridization. Leaning more towards Rapid just cause it's cheaper and it's actual spot removal.

Try both, not at the same time or anything, just try switch them out each week and see which helps more which match ups did you want those last two spots for?

spouts will be the go-to wipe post rotation baring some awesome reprint*crosses fingers for damnation*

Yea I'll try both out and see which I like better. I wanted those spots because heavy aggro decks or midrange decks that play the mentioned creatures late game will give me issues and I'd rather have answers for them in the sideboard besides a stall and Blind Obedience.

I feel post rotation U/G/X will be the best colours for control.
white gives elspeth, banishing and devouring light wall etc.
black gives downfall, seize tons great removal.(vraska, garruk)
green gives kiora, courser, carytid(spouts doesn't bounce your creatures which makes these soooo much more awesome:P)

or you could just go U/W or even grixis. As a control player I'm giddy to see whats in khans and can't wait for S'Rev to rotate.

I wouldn't think Khans will have much love for control, it looks like a Jund plane to me! Hopefully it will kill off mono black! It could be naya as well, but I think midrange will dominate again next standard season

I'm hoping that isn't the case but if it is oh well. My FNM ratings will go down cause I'm very good at midrange decks but still, could be fun.

I am really hoping for a damnation reprint, or at least a black version of day of judgement.

Why would Nyx Fleece replace WoE?

Because of burn possibly?

Maybe? The one toughness does make a difference but I prefer WoE's ability over the sheeps.

Oh no, I meant because it will for sure gain you life, you may not be blocking against burn!

VS control burn does side out most of their creatures so he does have a point, but I would still rather fiendslayer paly than ram in the SB for burn. Its an odd card for control to have but you do see it in the board a lot.

maybe:
-2 blind obedience

+2 fiendslayer

That way vs burn you have
2-slayers
2-negate
1-dispel

I forgot about Boros/monored Burn. Dam. I know what changes to make though in the board. I'll do that now.

I can't forget about it, my meta has 3 boros burn decks in about a 20 deck meta haha.

I saw the below post right after i commented.

Yea I made that post last night but I read these posts this morning. Burn completely skipped my mind so I put them back in. Now I'm wanting to try and fit at least one Divination in and I'm thinking of taking out 1 Wall of Essence for it.

That should be fine, or elixer.

Its the choice between:
1. keep wall and have a better match vs monsters and aggro
2. keep elixer and have better late game draws/non-situational lifegain.

I don't think dropping one wall would hurt too much and I do like being able to abuse Sphinx's Revelation without having to worry about losing out on cards because of Elixir. I don't think one wall will hurt too much but if I want to add in a second Divination I'll see what other changes I can make. Right now though I at least want one.

Yeah like either would be fine but dropping to 3 walls is probably better.

The jedi is also a power house against all aggro decks at the moment, they just can't beat him!

Green/White can beat him pretty easy, most aggro decks can't though.

you just don't want to have him in vs most aggro decks because you have your walls to stablize, at turn 3 you want to leave counter mana up or divination.
and when you stablize he is a bad draw and warthing away a 3cmc creature is a lot worse than a 2 cmc creature.

Selesnya does usually give my UW deck issues but thankfully the walls can help hold off a lot of their annoying early game creatures like Experiment One, Voice of Resurgence, and Fleecemane Lion. I'd probably be taking out some counters for Banishing Light and Rapid Hybridization when it comes to a deck like Selesnya.

Yeah, counters are a little worse when the enemy landed a voice on turn 2. Now you have to also worry about them chording into a Spirit of the Labyrinth in response to sphinx's rev.

Oh wow, that's a decent card to bring in against control. I don't think I've had that used against me though.

It's bad if you can't flash it in as they will just kill it and then draw afterward.
But I mean turning rev into a lifegain spell and then attacking for 3 on your turn is pretty good haha.

So...then it wasn't this exact deck.

No but i found the exact deck it was the first one. Do you play in Sacramento?

I used to run that combo but outside of Supreme Verdict and replacing itself Quicken didn't do much for me. There were dozens of times I had it and just wished it was some kind of spot removal.

Thank you very much.

A lot of people have told me not to use the new Jace but they tell me that without running him. Jace, the Living Guildpact as a one of doesn't hurt at all and if anything he's practically another win condition. Especially if I pop his ultimate with AEtherling and/or Elspeth out. The opponent can't do anything after that and they are pretty much done. Wall of Essence does a pretty good job protection him, as well as the other walkers. I wanted Divination as a one of just to have some extra draw. It's why I put it back in. That turn 3 draw is sometimes pretty crucial especially when you keep 2 mana hands. Deicide in the main helps against other decks that run enchantments. Not just the God cards. It's handy in exiling other Detention Spheres or Banishing Light. It could go back in the sideboard and I've thought about putting it back in for another Divination. Rapid Hybridization is strictly for decks that run Stormbreath Dragon and Blood Baron of Vizpoka. My deck, outside of Supreme Verdict, cannot touch those cards and while Blind Obedience helps against Stormbreath, it doesn't do anything but stall him for that turn. A 3/3 frog lizard is A LOT better than a 4/4 with protection from white. Which every single type of spot removal in my deck has. Also Wall of Essence can block a 3/3 frog lizard where as Blood Baron and Stormbreath, they cannot. I appreciate your input though, your comments always help.

I see... ...I understand your points, but overal, I still find this instabil... ...I'd change Divination to a 4th Azorius Charm, that's for sure... ...as for Stormbreath & Vizkopa, those are the reasons I run 3 Celestial Flare & 1 extra in my deck... ...sacrifice doesn't target, nor damage anything & usually the opponent won't have other attackers or blockers when I go with Elspeth tokens... ...even if my opponent would have other attackers, I can remove them with other spells, then use Flare... ...& counters are also good enough, especially when the deck is well balanced & you can have the nesessary mana most of the time for them.......

Against Jund and Junk counters are only so good. You wont always have them in your hand and those cards just give me some extra removal to bring in that'll assist. I like Celestial Flare and usually I can make it to where my opponent will sacrifice what I want them too but that is always too much of a gamble. I'd rather just target them off the bat. I've tested it against my buddies Boros Burn and Orzhov Control decks and it does really well.

im confused with the temple of triumph and mystery

ya maybe :OOOOOOOOOOOO