RUG Super Friends- Inf Combo

why only one chain veil???

Idk. I did want to add more. Help out though, what would you take out for an extra one? I couldn't decide.

why only one chain veil? if this works im putting it together, just curious because it states "activate one of its abilities once this trun"

Read the link I provided. A level 3 judge at first said it didn't work but it turns out that it does. You can activate the planeswalkers abilities an infinite amount of times with that combo.

But again, this isn't a serious deck draft and there probably would be at least 2x Chain Veil in any serious one. I was just putting something together in a hurry.

no dont worry i like it. sorry about the double post i didnt see the response, my pc being finicky. i read the link, just wasnt positive at first, reddit unfortantly likes to post links to "magic reprinting fetch lands in m14" if you remember that. this seems ligit, thanks for sharing it

Yea I wanted to share the tweet but Twitter is blocked on my work's network. The reddit post had the link to the twitter post though.

its blocked on my work pc's, im having the same issue

if you put the enchantment inexorable tide in there, you could set up an infinite turn combo

Thanks for the tip but this is a standard deck. Inexorable Tide would make the deck not legal.

Oh Lawd this combo

just remember the legendary rule.

...what about the legend rule?

only one legendary permanent on the field with the same name at a time. which sucks cause it would be awesome to have more than one chain veil out at the same time.

it is wholly unnecessary....the combo works fine with one. multiple chain veils would likely just slow you down.

cool deck bro

28 might be too much especially with all the mana dorks. What two walkers/mana dorks would you recommend?

To help keep in standard I would go with 4 Elvish Mystic. There was also that R/G druid that taps and deals 1 damage. For walkers I would go add in another Kiora and Nissa (seeing as she is part of your infinite combo and is decent end game). Your control spells and everything seem to be fine. You could also add in that blue spell that turns all of your oppenents creatures into 1/1 frogs, Polymorphist's Jest. That would work with Anger of the Gods (yes I know its a 6 mana total but hopefully it won't be a big deal with Nissa and ramping).

You will need to do some heavy playtesting to.

Thanks, for the tip on Jest and Anger. Good call. I'll try to fit in Nissa and another Kiora but I'm not sure what to take out for Elvish Mystic.

Well I don't play standard at all but I guess I would recommend something like this:
-2 lands
-1 Keranos
-1 Mortars

Eeehh...idk about Keranos. Kinda of an alternate win condition and he can help filter out the deck with his draw.

These changes better?

I think you need a play set of fog,it'll help protect your planeswalkers

If Keranos is useful for you then by all means run it, again I don't play standard so I don't know what the meta is or what your area meta is. The changes look good, hopefully it will help you speed up a little bit and you can get your walkers out easier.

Hopefully. I'm not sure what other changes I could make.

Really? Count again and actually look at the lands. Stomping Ground and Breeding Pool count as forests bro.

Really? Oh my bad then.

Np. Mistakes happen.

He was wrong about the shocks but you still do need more forests to consistently combo as quickly as possible.

If you put something like Verdant Haven in the deck then you could keep the lands the same and just remember to enchant a Forest and that way you would only need 3 lands that can untap. Just an idea, but I don't see you going infinite very early with that many non-Forests.

There are a total of 12 forests now. If I have to add more in I'll just take out some scry lands.

It's one ability for every time it is activated.

Np. I new it worked and I put a link in the description.

Huh. Kinda want too but I wouldn't know what to take out for him. He'd be pretty usable in this deck too.

yeah no kidding, pretty hard decisions

Kurkesh does not work with Chain Veil in that way. Neither does Strionic Resonator.

This is a very confusing card, and I was hoping to spark discussion on this topic, but since it has not happened, I will elaborate before I go to bed. For the purposes of this topic, I will be ignoring the first ability of TCV (take 2 damage if you dont activate a PW this turn) as it is irrelevant to the discussion, and focus on this:

4, Tap: For each planeswalker you control, you may activate one of its loyalty abilities once this turn as though none of its loyalty abilities have been activated this turn.

its important to note that there are two relevant phrases in the wording of this ability, the first one being "once this turn" and the second being "as though none of its loyalty abilities have been activated"

Most of the discussion on this card has been based on whether or not you can activate planeswalkers 3+ times in a turn, and many people focused on the "once this turn" phrase, incorrectly, for that. This is where the "As though none of its abilities have been activated" comes into play, allowing us to go infinite with it, under the right circumstances.

Kurkesh has an ability, however, that makes the "once this turn" relevant. Basically, the phrase "once this turn" makes it so any ability that would copy TCV's ability would become redundant. Even though you can copy the ability with Kurkesh, once you activate a planeswalker AFTER the TCV activation, you would not be able to do so a second time, for the copied ability, as the requirement of "Once this turn" has already been satisfied.

Sorry this post is so long, but, as I stated at the beginning, this is not an easy card to fully understand, and if you plan on using it in a competitive way, it is best to know exactly what you can do with it.

Np man. Thanks for clarifying that for us. Much appreciated.

Actually he's Wrong, if you read the official FAQ and listen to the judge podcast they actually reference this guys ability with Chain Veil, and yes, one red will give you more then one activation with Chain Veil

Here is the Podcast link to the FAQ Judges, just listen and they will explain it broken down for you...... Also they will break down some other neat stuff..... like the fact chain veil activates on NEW planeswalkers that are put onto the field even after you use its ability
http://media.blubrry.com/mtgcastdotcom/p/media.blubrry.com/judgecast/p/judgecast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/JudgeCast_096.mp3

They talk about the Chain Veil at about 15minutes..... and Kurkesh Is right after the Chain Veil

Nothing in the FAQ about Kurkesh being able to copy TCV's ability, and the judge podcast does not clear anything up, except that these guys can be wrong too.
when you copy an ability, they both go on the stack, which means that you cannot activate a planeswalker before the stack clears.
The Chain Veil has a qualifying statement that you may activate planeswalkers once per turn as though they have not been activated.
if you activate TCV, and copy it with Kurkesh, you get 2 instances of "you may activate planeswalkers ONCE PER TURN as though they have not been activated"
one activation of your planeswalkers satisfies the once per turn for both instances.
the only good info that podcast had on this situation is to read the FAQ.
the only reason i didnt bring up the new walker thing was because it was not relevant to the conversation.

the Podcast are the judges that do the Official FAQ......

and they are infallible, right? I myself am a level one judge, and I have discussed, at length, this exact interaction (- Kurkesh, add Strionic Resonator, but thats not relevant, since its the same ability) with level 2 and 3 judges in my networking pool, and we have all come to a similar decision.

I do know, however, that even after the FAQ, the camps are split on this cards abilities, since the FAQ only addressed the one major point, and not this issue. I would recommend running however your HJ is allowing it at events until something changes. We will do the same here :)

I'm a Level 1 as well, and have conferred with 2-3's in my area but also on the judge site as well and 90% allow his ability to work With chain veil
Not Infallible, but they are the leading source as they directly work with DCI and top tier judges being level 4 and 5's

the ability works, dont get me wrong. Kurkesh can copy any activated ability. the issue, as I see it, comes up with the wording of the chain veil. you cannot activate the same thing once per turn twice, which is what copying that ability does. its the same kind of redundancy that using Vault of the Archangel to give a Vault Skirge lifelink. Im sure this will be addressed, and until it is, the camps will likely remain split.

At about 20 minutes into the podcast the judges clearly state that you are wrong NinjaStyle612. They state that the copy of the ability Happens and allows you to "double up on your planeswalker activations" from TCV.

Also in the chain veil section that reference that the chain veil extra activation do not have to be immediately used but are a continuously applied. So if i were to use and copy TCV I would have 2 extra planeswalker uses. If I had 4 forests (one with a Verdant Haven on it), Ral, Nissa, Kurkesh, and TCV i can: tap all 4 lands for 4G 1R; Use the chain veil and copy it (giving me two activations in addition to my currently unused one); use ral to tap one of my opponents permanents and untap veil (origional use for turn); Use nissa to untap my forests (origional use for turn); repeat steps 1 and two; use one of my now 4 additional planeswalker activations to repeat steps 3 and 4. the formula for extra net uses in this instance is: +2, +1, +1, +1, +1, +1, ect. That math being done if i were to do the full combo 696 times i could ultimate Ral 100 times for 100(x) tuns (where x is the number of heads) or -2 him 350 times for 1050 damage. If you have GW Ajani on field when you do this you can up the number of combo times to 796 and will be able to gain 10,000 life while having a 2,392/2,391 Kurkesh. the combos go on and, though you wish to argue, are infinite.

I remember when I waited 3 weeks to comment on a dead thread. congrats, kid.

Didnt see it until today bro. Felt the need to point out your faults since you were so adamant that you were right.

and some kid on the internet is going to change that? When Riki is posting about cards, then redacting statements about those same cards, there are obviously some confusing elements in play. Just because some judges gloss over something in a podcast doesnt make it right. the way the cards are currently worded, YOU are wrong. Until there is a change in the wording, or the rules, you will remain wrong. I am not saying that the intention of R&D was not to make Kurkesh work great with TCV. If that is the case, Erratas will happen.

Regardless, save your time. Im not interested in your opinion. this conversation has been over for weeks.

Thats the first thing I thought of when I seen the deck.

Read the link I provided. A judge ruled that you can use it as many times as you'd like using this combo.

That really is NOT a bad idea at all. I'm not sure what to take out for her but thanks for that input.

Breeding Pool and Stomping Ground are Forests, and Nissa can untap them. Good Lord, people, this isnt that difficult to grasp.

Additionally, Xenagos can also be used to go infinite with Ral.

They aren't, they're Forest cards. Look at a little card called Farseek, or even Skyshroud Claim, they specifically state Forest cards, hence why they could search up shocks and put them in to play. Nature's Claim on the other hand only says Forest, hence why it can only put Forests in to play. Nissa says Untap up to four target Forests. Not Forest cards, Forests, the card refers to the name of another, not they type of it.

They are Forests and Islands(or Mountains) whoever you are getting your information from is leading you astray. You are wrong, Nissa can untap a Breeding Pool or a Stomping Ground. Hell, she can even untap Temple Gardens and Overgrown Tombs.

Here's a fun fact: Forests are Forest Cards, too.

Did I say Forests weren't Forest cards? No I said a card called... Stomping Ground isn't called a Forest, it's called a Stomping Ground. They are Forest cards not Forests, significant difference.

the point still stands, you are wrong, and Nissa can untap dual lands with two basic land types, as long as one of the types is forest.

It does not stand, Breeding Pool isn't a forest and island, it is a land with card types Forest and Island, this does not make it a Forest, it makes it a Forest card

and if they wanted the card to only untap basic lands, it would say :

+1: Untap up to four BASIC forests

it does not, therefore it can untap dual forests. this is not new. Tropical Island is also a Forest and an Island, and always has been. you must be new.

No it wouldn't, no card in Magic History to my knowledge, and trust me I know a lot of cards, says... something something basic Forest/Mountain/Island/Swamp/Plains. Any card that would refer to a basic land either calls the card by name i.e. Forest/Mountain/Island/Swamp/Plains, or just lumps them all together as Basic Lands. By adding the word card to the description of a spell or ability it means that the effect applies to cards of that name as well as those with the card type, however, without the word card as according to numerous rules notifications from Magic Tourneys past, then the ability refers only to card named such.

Gaea's Touch and the 3 green Panoramas (Naya, Jund, Bant) all say "Basic Forest" on them

the problem is not the cards, its your understanding.

I really hope youre not the guy at your local shop who gives out rules advice....especially when you are as misguided as you are.

ZeBeast, I'm afraid you're wrong. Breeding Pool, Temple Garden, Stomping Ground, Overgrown Tomb, just using these as examples but they ARE considered forests. She is able to untap them with her ability. No idea who is giving you the information you have but it is incorrect. You are welcome to go to any MTG forum or ask any judge. Not that you'd need to because NinjaStyle is a level 1 judge so he'd know.


ZeBeast- if you'd like to see for yourself, here is a link to a chat room that allows you to ask MTG judges questions regarding the game:

http://chat.magicjudges.org/mtgrules/

I went in there and asked if Nissa can untap these lands and every single one in there ruled that she could.

Do me a favor bro..... look up original Duel lands and read the text, it specifically says anything that would effect lets say Forest/Mountains will also Effect this card....

Farseek CAN search for Temple garden, Steam Vents, and other shock lands because their Land TYPES include Forest in them, the NAME of the card is irrelevant.....

The same goes for Nissa, she can untap Shocks all day long, same as any Basic land Forest

I'm only a Level 1 judge, but i can gladly show a level 3 or higher saying the same exact thing

?? For what?

He enables you to cast sorceries during your opponents turn, and he is a 5/5 flying and help with your devotion to keranos. Mostly so you can use anger of the gods on their turn.

Not really beneficial to run him when I only have 3 sorcery spells and Keranos is in here to help draw and burn creatures/the opponent. Not really to attack with.

Also, he's a 4/4. Not a 5/5.

Polymorphist's Jest + Anger of the gods during their turn almost always wins me the game. Either that or Curse of the swine + Anger of the Gods. I took 4/30 at my locals. Even went up against top tier decks like mono blue and mono black devotion. I just side out the infinite combo. Take out ral zareks, Nissas, and the chain veil, put in some hard-to-kill dudes and a few extra counter spells to cancel those hero's downfalls.

lol. if youre going to run Polymorphist's Jest and a hard to cast 3 drop, you might as well run Izzet Staticcaster. Or save the mana and run Electrickery. or Circle of Flame.

That's probably a better idea. Thx Ninja.

Only 5 of his lands aren't forest. So I think he knew he needed more than 14.

but that wouldnt work, because they wouldnt be "forest cards," Right, ZeBeast? x-D


but seriously, its a decent idea, but pretty fragile on a 0/1. probably worth a shot, though