Asturonethorius

With 8, 3 cmc creatures, and 2, 2 Cmc creatures, I can still get a turn 2 drop of either a 3 cmc, or 2 Cmc Mayor. Also with 6, 4 cmc creatures, that's 16, creatures I can get out on turns 2,3. With still only 10, 5 cmc creatures (that includes the 2 Ulrichs, that I just added), plus the 2, 6 cmc Mimic, for 12, 5,6 cmc creatures. So 16, 2,3,4 cmc(8, 3 cmc, 2, 2 cmc, 6, 4 cmc), 4 more than the 12, 4,5 cmc( 10, 5 cmc, 2, 6 cmc), so because of that the deck still gets out, creatures on turn 2,3 on at least a semi consistent basis, probably even more consistent basis then that.

So because of that adding the 2 Ulrich's shouldn't prevent creatures from coming out on turns 2,3, by the Stat comparison illustrated above, sample hand testing, etc.

After play testing, sample hands, I noticed that only used Dromoka Command for 2 things, pump, fight. I usually don't use it to get rid of a enchantment. Also Conscripts can do that for me, just as well as Dromoka. Also don't use Dromoka's Prevent Damage, since have Iroas, Medic. But if didn't have Medic, Iroas, would have to keep Dromoka Command . So because of that I finally found room for 2 Ulrich, Wasn't willing to turn the Dromoka Commands into Daybreak Ranger, because Ranger not good enough, and because didn't have Iroas. Ulrich is like a Daybreak Ranger, Wolfir Silverheart combined into 1 werewolf creature. Lots better than Ranger, Wolfir Silverheart. My only knock on him, is they needed to make Ulrich, non legendary, give him haste at 5 cmc, so that could get him out on turn 4, pump, attack, then copy him with Mimic, Kiki, but can't do that since they had to go make him a legendary. Oh well, can still pair Silverheart with Ulrich, and can make Silverheart stupidly big at 16/16, by pairing Silverheart with a non token Silverheart, or a token Silverheart, or 2 token Silverhearts, which makes Silverheart a 12/12, then target 12/12 Silverheart, with Ulrich, making Silverheart into a 16/16, then Bounce Ulrich, with Restoration Angel to make Silverheart a 20/20. Silverheart, Silverheart, Ulrich, Restoration, a great combo for a 20/20 Silverheart, and doable by turn 6 at the fastest, as a way to finish the game, if the game isn't already over by turn 5.

So turned 2 Dromoka into 2 Ulrich

Thanks for liking the deck. Please feel free to make comments suggestions. The deck list is pretty much very extremely close to being done. As such, I am not looking to make a lot of wholesale changes. That said, I am open to making slight tweaks, changes to the deck, when, if I am convinced, persuaded by logic, etc, as to WHY I should make the changes, and not because if somebody says "Because it will make your deck good, or even better than it is".

Thanks for like, comments, please like the deck if like the deck, please comment if want to comment, please play test if want to play test, please let me know result of play test, if want to, if play test.

Thanks

After looking the card up, think I will go for Chord over Coco, because Coco could make me discard a lot of good cards to the bottom of library, where won't draw, get them out.

Hmmm, that is awesome. It does make almost any lower cmc, creature deck, whether standard, Modern, EDH, Commander, whether werewolves, other creatures, almost all, better. I don't think it makes standard werewolves, tier 1, tier 1.5, maybe tier 2, to tier 2.5. The only problem I see with this is most werewolves, are 3, 4,5 cmc, and most of the worse werewolves are 1,2,3 cmc. But that's in standard. Because of that, either going to get out a bunch of bad, lower cmc werewolves. Even if use it to get out Bandit, getting more then 1 out, would be redundant, as only need 1 out. And since Coco is 4 cmc, it's likely not going to come out until turns 3,4 at fastest, and Bandit can come out by turn 2, with Birds, turn 3,4 without Birds, which is before, same time as Coco. And if playing a deck with a LOT of 3 cmc's, they will probably come out, before, same time as Coco, so altho Coco will help, it won't help as good as it could in Standard Werewolves. Where Coco probably likely shines, is in locating 3 cmc Combo piece creatures.

Now in Modern Coco could get out on turn 2 at best, turn 3,4 and could get out werewolves, wolves like Bandit, outlaw, Ranger, Immerwolf, and can also be copied, to get 4, 3 Cmc werewolves, wolves out.

Hmmm, 3 slots to run either Coco, or Chord. Chord will only get me 2 creatures, if copied, vs Coco's 4, but Chord of Calling can get me Any Cmc creatures out, and not just 3 Cmc like Coco, but Chord also makes me tap creatures down, because of Convoke mechanic, where with Coco, I don't have to pay for Coco, by tapping creatures.

Hmm let's see, I have about 8, 2,3 cmc creatures, and about 8, 4,5 cmc creatures, and 2, 6 cmc's, and 4, 1 cmc's. Hmm wish I had 4 slots, so that could go 2 Coco, 2 chords, so if have to run 3 of 1 or the other, I guess I will run Chord, so that can fetch Huntmaster, Instigator Gang, Restoration Angel, Zealous Conscripts, Wolfir Silverheart, Ulrich, etc, out of 2 decks of mine, 1 a Modern GRW, extremely small splash blue, Naya deck, and the other GR extremely small splash blue Modern werewolves.

Well thanks for telling me what Coco is, does.

Thanks to those, who have viewed this, one of my decks here. Thanks for the likes. Thanks for the comments, suggestions. Thanks to anybody who is play testing the deck.

No offense taken, and hopefully no offense given, since you said you didn't want to be rude.
Only reason why I mentioned Modern Format, was to say that the only way to make Werewolves a tier 1, 1.5, deck, was to make it a Modern Format deck. That SO FAR the current standard block, doesn't have good enough Werewolf cards, Werewolf supporting cards, to make it a current standard tier 1, 1.5 deck. But maybe that will change in the next set, before Werewolf cycles out of standard again.

And as far as comparisons go, I wasn't comparing your deck specifically, or current standard werewolves, to Modern Format. I was comparing current standard werewolves, to the INNISTRAD, DARK ASCENSION past standard block sets, werewolves, back when they used to be standard legal. So it was a equal comparison, because comparing new standard block, to a old cycled out, no longer standard, standard block. The point of the comparison, was to say, show that as it stands now, the current standard block werewolves don't seem to be, are probably not tier 1, 1.5.

As for Ulrich, he is not to slow, IF, IF, he has good enough help, support, Birds, Atarka Commands. He is going to be awesome in Modern Format, and EDH Commander, and ike Huntmaster is, would be good in any deck, whether werewolf, or some other deck, as long as has the right, good enough help, support, acceleration, etc, cards built around him.. Also Geir Reach Bandits is going to also be awesome in a Modern Format Werewolf deck. Also like I said maybe Bandit, Ulrich, will be good before they cycle out, if they get help in the next set.

Also depends on your situation, as to whether it's pointless to make a Werewolf deck. If you just want to play casual, kitchen table, or weak fielded FNM's, then that's great, make a standard format Werewolf deck. But if you even want to make, play a standard format Werewolf deck at a STRONG FNM TOURNAMENT, then maybe, maybe not , unless you like to lose a lot, lose at least 53 to 63% of your games, finish 9th to 17th place, at best, if a good player, to 13th to 23rd place if not a good player, outside the prize pool, outside even the cheap freebie prize promo card given to 13th to 19th place finishers, out of 39 to 59 players.

Also another reason I mentioned this, is that some base their decision on the thought that FNM's, Friday Night Magic semi tournaments are weak. Heck even another commenter on your deck page, said FNM is weak, and that because of that it's ok to play this deck at FNM, but not at tournaments, city, convention, states, ptq, Grand Prix tournaments.

That can be true, you could enter a very weak FNM and do well. But you could just as easily enter a stronger FNM and do bad. Like I said FNM Friday Night Magic semi tournaments, at local game stores, can be weak, can be very strong filled with hard core, competitive, strong, good players, but not good enough to play in other tournaments, unless they choose not to, like beating weaker competition, consistently finish 1st, win a LOT of free booster packs, can't travel to better tournaments, no better tournaments around, don't have the money, card collection, actual playing skill (best deck builder, but bad, non skilled player), etc.

So casual, kitchen table, weaker FNM'S, with this deck, great, stronger FNM's, tournaments, city, state, otq, Grand prix, not great.

Also question for you, since I am not always good at card nicknames, What card is Coco? I doubt that there is a card named Coco, and whether there is or not, I doubt that it would make a standard Werewolf deck tier 1

Also forgot to mention Ulrich Krallenhorde, if he had been around back then, along with Bandit, that would have made Werewolves tier 1 back then. But today there is just not enough around Bandit, Ulrich(Birds, 1 Cmc mana creatures, that can drop on turn 1, to get 3 Cmc werewolves out on turn 2, Moonmist, Full Moon's Rise, Rangers Guile, etc). Also Ulrich needed to be 4 cmc, and is to slow at 5 cmc. The reason why Wolfir Silverheart was ok at 5 cmc, was because he didn't transform, and could soul bond pair up with a creature to give permanent + 4 bonus.

Not only will Ulrich not come out until turn 3 at best, 4 average if use mana creatures, turn 5 on average without mana creatures, but by turn 5 is slightly just barely undersized at 4/4, and won't flip, attack as a 6/6 until turn 7, pretty much after the game should already be done, over. And that's turns 5,6,7 at the fastest that get to get it out, flip it, attack with it, etc. That means that most of the time you don't get him out flipped, attacking until turns 7,8,9.

Also another thing I forgot to mention, is that altho Bandit makes Werewolves come into play flipped, they can still be flipped back without Immerwolf.

FNM TOURNAMENTS are tournaments. Some may be weak. Some like the ones in my area with 3 to 9 PTQ Grand Prix players are strong. On average even FNM tournament players use TIER 1, 1.5, 2, rogue decks. Rogue is not a deck filled with rogues, but rather is a deck like land destruction, infect, etc, that close to being tier 1,1.5,2.

Werewolf decks at best are, were tier 1.5, 2, back in dark ascension standard block days. I spent $375 on RG, barely splashed blue(for Phyrexian Metamorph, sideboard counterspells). Without even knowing about, seeing Brian Kibbler's list (a Pro who made the best Werewolf list, finished 16 to 32 place on pro circuit, with the Werewolf deck list), I made almost the same exact deck list, as his, or he made the same exact deck list as me.

Here's the deck list for reference.

4 Birds, 3 Mayor's of Avabrucks, 2 Daybreak Rangers, 2 Kruin Outlaw, 2 immerwolfs, 2 Huntmasters, 2 Instigator Gangs, 2 Phyrexian Metamorphs, 2 Wolfir Silverheart, 3 moonmist, 2 Full Moon's Rise, 3 can't remember the burn card that cost 3 Cmc that does 3 damage to 1 creature, where if a creature dies, has died in the turn, it also deals 5 damage to another creature, 2 Garruk Relentless 2 spell copiers, can't remember if I used 2 Chandra Firebrand, or 2 dual casting, or 2 increasing vengeance, can't remember if I used 2 Green Sun's Zenith, if that was still legal in that standard block back then, 2 Ranger's Guile.

Now this deck it's best finish was 4th place out of about 60 players, and beat Wolf Run Ramp Titan deck that finished 2nd, in local FNM that had 2 to 4 PTQ, Grand Prix players in the FNM.

Now the reason went into that, is that's the best werewolves have done in past standard blocks.

Now I want to make some comparisons.

Geir Reach Bandit is the only Werewolf, that compares to past werewolves. If he had been around back then, werewolves would have been tier 1 back then.

But having him here now does not make werewolves high tier, tier 1, because the other werewolves, are just not good enough, and because don't have Moonmist, Full Moon's Rise. Yes Howl pack Resurgence is similar as far as pump, Trample goes, but Resurgence does not regenerate all werewolves like Full Moon's Rise did. And problem with Waxing Moon, is its not as good as Moonmist.

If MTG wanted Werewolf to be a tier 1 standard tribe, they needed to either reprint Moonmist, Full Moons Rise, some of the past werewolves to go with Bandit, or they needed to make extremely similar werewolf based cards with different names.

Right now the only way to make Werewolves a tier 1 deck is to make a MODERN FORMAT werewolves deck, or wait, and hope that another set comes out, and adds enough to make Werewolf tier 1, before it cycles out of standard again.

If you want to proxy up the deck list, play test it, please feel free to do so, and let me know the results, but only go by the results over a large sample size, as in the short term, decks can get lucky, unlucky, with bad, good draws.

Well anyone could run a slight different version of the deck. They could cut Iroas, or Thragtusk, or Thoctar, and go down to 61 cards 23 lands and the deck would still work just fine.

As far as Iroas, I have noticed that he only works in a extremely high creature count deck like this, so that if devotion not hit, it still doesn't matter, or straight red, right Boros decks.

As far as play testing goes, the way I play test, is 1. Start with 50 to 5000, sample hands on the sample hand thing here.

2. Then I proxy up the deck list, against my friends Leo, Joel, Jarret. Leo is 1,of the top players in the area. He is a card game genius. He has about 15 to 30 various Modern, Standard semi tournament decks that he plays at FNM, local city, conventional, like Spokane Convention, MTG tournaments, FNM's. He has also retired from the Yugi Oh tournament scene, where he DOMINATED. His local competition at FNM'S comprise 3 to 9 players in 29 to 59 player tournaments, FNM's, that also play in MTG PTQ's(pro tour qualifier's), Grand Prix's, and yet despite that he still finishes between 2nd at highest, to about 11th at lowest, out of 29 to 59 players, that include the best players ( I would say our local FNM scene, players, is probably one of the toughest, hardest in the country, and only beat out by places like Seattle the HQ of MTG). Not saying that to brag, but when, after playing testing against various decks of leo's, and doing pretty good, that means, counts for something. He Leo likes the deck, and has made suggestions for the deck.

Sideboard suggestions wanted needed.

Ok, deck legal again, and replaced 2 Splinter Twin with 2 Iroas God of Victory to help out the 2 Frontline Medic with protection of creatures, and to make creatures Unblockable except by 2 or more creatures, and because there is plenty enough devotion to red, white from Reckoner, and Kiki, Jiki, other sources, and because mana base, ok, good, solid, and because it's a 7/4 for 4 CMC, drop on turn 3, and can pump it up to a 12/9 thru Silverheart Dromoka, that can fight target creature.

I checked the Gatherer, and your right that Splinter Twin is banned. Wonder why it's not listed as banned here? Thanks for the comment pointing it out.

Are you sure it's banned, maybe you misheard, misread, misunderstood. I clicked on the link, and it says it's legal in Modern. I will also check Tapped TO site, and the Gatherer, and MTG Salvation, on its legality. If it's illegal, I will remove the card from deck.

As to more then 60 cards. 65, under 65 is ok in limited situations, depending on the situation, deck, etc. To use more then 60 cards, you have to do the following:

Use EDH commander deck building techniques:

1.If you have 8 creature removal cards, that have extremely close CMC mana cost, extremely close, same removal method, but each have different names, then what does it matter if you have 8 such creature removal cards, and only 1 of each. It don't matter. That's what it means to use a CARD CATEGORY like REMOVAL for example. If have have enough cards in the card category say 6, 10, 14, for example, then won't be hurt in a EDH commander deck, and a modern, standard deck over 60 cards.

2. The principle of it doesn't matter what comes out because whatever comes out is likely to screw your opponent. That principle is used in EDH, commander, and can be used in a 60 to 67 card deck in Modern Standard.

3. Using interchangeable combo pieces, with synergies, to where it almost doesn't matter what comes out. Related to point 2 above.

4. Using search your library Tutor Cards, Fetch Lands, draw cards, scry, etc to increase odds of getting cards out.

5. Using right mana Ratio percentages, numbers, lands. In a 60 card deck, 22, 23,24 land. 23,24 land 61 cards, 23,24 lands in 62 cards, 24 lands in 63 cards, 24,25 lands in 64 cards, 25,26 lands in 65 cards, 26,27 lands in 66 cards, 27, 28 lands in 67 cards.

If use 67 or less cards, and follow all of the above 4 points, 1 can build a good modern, standard deck with more then 60 cards in it, and not have it be too inconsistent, watered down etc.

Also I once built a blue, black, green, EDH, commander deck with 99 cards, 1 deck commander with 34,35,36 land that cost about $300 to $900 plus trading to build it, that won about 49% if it's games against normal 60 card modern, standard decks, at local game stores, before it was stolen (:-(), that was built using the deck building principles I outlined above.

Ok, after doing more playtesting, and doing more sample hands, etc, this deck SEEMS, so SICK, BROKEN, STUPIDLY AWESOME!!!:-)

The deck is extremely close to done. Tho I open to making very slight changes, tweaks to deck, and open to positive, constructive, logical, good, advice, constructive, logical, criticism, comments, etc, I am not interested in making a lot of wholesale changes, and only interested in making very slight tweaks, changes.

My comments, should give some insight to the thought process behind the deck.

Any comments, suggestions, advice, liking, + 1 ing the deck, is greatly appreciated

All credit, thanks to others decks, that gave me derivative card, deck ideas. Like would not have know about Kiki Jiki, without all the Kiki Decks. Would not have known about Zealous Conscripts, if not for a discussion in the comments of another deck. Would not have known about Woolly Thoctar, if not for Necrumlsice's deck that has it in his deck.

That said, despite getting derivative ideas from 2,3,4 cards from 2,3,4 other decks, the basic shell of deck, and most of the cards, were, are my, non derivative idea, where I just didn't copy others decks. If the deck has a resemblance to other decks, it would be because it's a great deck build, and others had the same similar ideas as me at the same time. I assume they are not copying me, despite similarities, and I am not copying them.

As such this is my personal build of this deck, and is my deck, not a copy, and not someone elses.

Disclaimer: Only reason I put that about that in here, is because on another deck page, a commenter accused somebody of deck Plagiarism.

Also please feel free to proxy up the deck, and play test the deck, and please let me know how that goes, as I want to make sure the deck is worth the price tag, before I start taking the time to trade, buy, build, play the deck in Modern Tournaments.

That's why I have proxied up the deck, an am play testing the deck now.

Thanks for any play testing of the deck, comments, suggestions, advice, likes, + 1's, etc! :-)

Had to go to 64 cards, 24 lands from 61 cards 23 lands, because had to add 2 Thragtusk, which makes a thragtusk token if it removed, bounced, and it gives 5 life, when it enters play, and it's a 5/3 for 5 CMC, which is good, ok, considering what else it does, and can easily pump it up to about a 10/8, and it's a good target combo with Restoration Angel, Kiki, Mimic, Zealous Conscripts, Splinter Twin, which cards create a LOT of life, and lots of 3/3 permanent, and temporary Thragtusk tokens, and it can come out as early as turn 3,4 if have 1,2 Birds out turns 1,2, and it combos well with a copied Chord of Calling, and it's a good target for Graveyard Reentry, recursion into play.

I couldn't take any Birds out as need them for ramp. Can't take out 3 Cmc creatures, as would have a bad creature Cmc mana curve, as there is 4 1 cmc birds, 2 2 Cmc mayor, 8 3 Cmc creatures that necessary, 2 4 cmc, 2 Huntmaster, 2 Restoration angel, and Huntmaster, Angel necessary. 5 Cmc Wolfir Silverheart pumps stuff up big awesome target for the copiers, 5 cmc Kiki is necessary, as is 5 Cmc Zealous Conscripts, as is 6 CMC Progenitor Mimic.

The 2 4 Cmc Splinter Twin, combo awesomely with too many things, so can't cut them. The 2 Blasphemous Acts are board wipe, combo well with Frontline Medic, Boros Reckoner, Thragtusk, and is a win con, Dromoka, is removal, damage prevention, pump, can't come out, combos well with mid to big creatures, and Chord is the glue of the deck, that gets stuff out, so it can't come out.

Ok, I went the Full Breakage, out of infinite tokens, in a way.

Replaced Phyrexian Metamorph with Progenitor Mimic, not only does he copy creature like Metamorph, but makes Mimic Tokens that copy creatures. Only slight downside is its 6 CMC mana cost vs Metamorph 3,4 CMC, but it makes up for that in its 2 for 1 ability, of not only copying creature, but producing a mimic token that copies any creature, that's a 2 for 1, where the 6 CMC, divides into 2, 3 CMC for the mimic token, that copies, and the original Mimic, that's like getting 2 metamorphs, for 6 mana, 3 mana per metamorph. Also Mimic combos with Restoration to make infinite Angel Tokens, and it may combo with Conscripts to make infinite Conscript tokens, but need help with the rules about that, explained above.

Also replaced Daybreak Ranger(also considering replacing Thoctar, instead of Daybreak Ranger), with 2 Splinter Twins.

Splinter Twins combos with Zealous Conscripts to make infinite Conscripts tokens.

Between Mimic, and Splinter twin, I have different ways to copy, make tokens, and make infinite tokens like crazy, thus breaking, pushing copying, making tokens, infinite tokens as broken as possible without messing up the Naya, Gruul, Selesnya, Boros, Blitz, Midrange, Stomp, Aggro, Human, Werewolf, Wolf, Beast, Minotaur, Goblin, Birds, Shapeshifter, GRW, mix, shell.

The infinite token combos are likely to come out, but even if they were to not come out the deck would still probably win with its creatures, removal, pump, copying, other interchangeable combo's, like Reckoner + Blasphemous Act, etc

Dropped Daybreak Ranger, Added Splinter Twin, adding Ranger to Maybeboard. Replaced Phyrexian Metamorph, with Progenitor Mimic, adding Metamorph to maybeboard.

Yeah, also thoughtseize, counterspell, rarely, uncommonly get played before turn 2, which is when Loxodon, Thoctar, would Ideally drop, before get countered, thoughtseized.

Some of your so called trash as you put it decks, have good concepts, and can be fixed, by making slight, tweaks, changes, with the right card, cards, and by putting the right card, cards in your Side Board, and in how play the deck, how, what side board in, out.

The only problem with that, is the time, money, trading, etc, needed to fix, which while doable over time, is easier said then done.